Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
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Fullheadofturf1234
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Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » April 10th, 2019, 9:57 pm

I spent some time reading a handful of links on the Philes regimen and want to open up an open discussion for what we know and learnes foe 2019.

Basically it say Kgb is hungry and instead of 4 lbs of N per year Kgb can take up to 8-12 lbs put down at bi-monthly applications(more or less just not all at once).

So obiviously Milo or equivelent shoukd be used but is it really required over syntehtic fertilizers?

What about Urea? Why not use .5 lbs of N from urea to feed the hungry Kgb assuming that P and K are represented in the soil.

I’m personally leaning towards urea apps with half bag rate of milo every 2 weeks.

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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by Green » April 10th, 2019, 10:54 pm

People definitely use pure urea and ammonium sulfate for this purpose. You'll probably get some replies from people who have done that.

And it's not just for KBG. Any new grass type, or thinned out/under-fertilized grass can potentially benefit (FF maybe less so, though).

I will be spraying primarily ammonium sulfate (foliar) for this purpose this Spring. First time doing so. I've taken the Milorganite approach and granular approach in the past.

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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by Masbustelo » April 11th, 2019, 5:48 am

An argument in favor of Milorganite or other compost based fertilizers is that plants need much more than N,P,K to be healthy. Plants need a complicated array of micro nutrients as well. Even though the micro nutrient volume need is much less, the relationship of micro nutrient to plant health is well established. Take the oft recommended Boron for instance. One of the reasons that soil tests are recommended is to ascertain what the complex needs of turf grown on your plot shall be. I think Philes is more complex than applying synthetic NPK. The myriad of fungal and diseases that appear in a season can often be attributed to plant deficiencies. A lawn is a type of garden and the best gardeners (those growing world class tomatoes. for instance) know to dig deep and treat the soil with compost, and leaves, and alfalfa etc. Then weather willing and sufficient water, things turn out pretty good. A lawn is the same. A well fed garden has few pests and little need for harsh chemicals, and I suspect the same goes for lawns. At the end of the day grass is a plant like any other.

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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by turf_toes » April 11th, 2019, 6:50 am

Masbustelo wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 5:48 am
An argument in favor of Milorganite or other compost based fertilizers is that plants need much more than N,P,K to be healthy. Plants need a complicated array of micro nutrients as well. Even though the micro nutrient volume need is much less, the relationship of micro nutrient to plant health is well established. Take the oft recommended Boron for instance. One of the reasons that soil tests are recommended is to ascertain what the complex needs of turf grown on your plot shall be. I think Philes is more complex than applying synthetic NPK. The myriad of fungal and diseases that appear in a season can often be attributed to plant deficiencies. A lawn is a type of garden and the best gardeners (those growing world class tomatoes. for instance) know to dig deep and treat the soil with compost, and leaves, and alfalfa etc. Then weather willing and sufficient water, things turn out pretty good. A lawn is the same. A well fed garden has few pests and little need for harsh chemicals, and I suspect the same goes for lawns. At the end of the day grass is a plant like any other.
You’re overthinking this.

I’m not a high input guy. I do use Oceangro (a local alternative to Milorganite). But not at the rates others here suggest.

That said, the benefit of using biosolid fertilizer like Milo is that it’s a pretty mild nitrogen fertilizer. One could use Urea, but the chances of over applying and burning your lawn is much higher with Urea.

There are folks here who apply Milorganite weekly without killing their grass. That dovetails nicely with the Philes approach. I don’t believe Philes’ emphasis was on anything but using a higher nitrogen rate. It had nothing to do with micronutrients.

Using Urea is possible in tiny applications. But it isn’t something I would suggest for the average person. There is just too much risk.

But again, I think the Philes approach is unnecessary for the average person who wants a great lawn (Kentucky Bluegrass or otherwise). The cost vs benefit is simply not worth it (for most people).

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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » April 11th, 2019, 8:31 am

There are many variables. It's about feeding the N your turf wants.

One thing that dawned on me the first time I read his post was that those places greener from "too much" fertilizer weren't over applications, the rest of the yard was an under application.

My KBG responds wonderfully to nitrogen, and I use urea mostly for cost, but I'd prefer milo if it were cost effective. I maybe apply a few lbs N in the spring on my established turf. This year I'll pump it more as I have fall grub damage to fill in.

The main points of Philes is that in the spring after a renovation new KBG turf is especially hungry, and regular and light doses of N are a good way to grow it.

My personal favorite is fertilizing before light rains, or even during a light rain. Looks like rain? Time to fertilize.


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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » April 11th, 2019, 10:52 pm

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 8:31 am
There are many variables. It's about feeding the N your turf wants.

One thing that dawned on me the first time I read his post was that those places greener from "too much" fertilizer weren't over applications, the rest of the yard was an under application.

My KBG responds wonderfully to nitrogen, and I use urea mostly for cost, but I'd prefer milo if it were cost effective. I maybe apply a few lbs N in the spring on my established turf. This year I'll pump it more as I have fall grub damage to fill in.

The main points of Philes is that in the spring after a renovation new KBG turf is especially hungry, and regular and light doses of N are a good way to grow it.

My personal favorite is fertilizing before light rains, or even during a light rain. Looks like rain? Time to fertilize.
How much urea do you use per application? .5 lbs of N per thousand?
Also, is this in conjuncioned with a balanced fertilizer at lets say 1 lb of N per K?

I like the urea idea, cheap and easy... maybe not for all but like continuing the fall regimen throughout the spring.

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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by spectrum1c » April 19th, 2019, 3:53 pm

turf_toes wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 6:50 am
Masbustelo wrote:
April 11th, 2019, 5:48 am
An argument in favor of Milorganite or other compost based fertilizers is that plants need much more than N,P,K to be healthy. Plants need a complicated array of micro nutrients as well. Even though the micro nutrient volume need is much less, the relationship of micro nutrient to plant health is well established. Take the oft recommended Boron for instance. One of the reasons that soil tests are recommended is to ascertain what the complex needs of turf grown on your plot shall be. I think Philes is more complex than applying synthetic NPK. The myriad of fungal and diseases that appear in a season can often be attributed to plant deficiencies. A lawn is a type of garden and the best gardeners (those growing world class tomatoes. for instance) know to dig deep and treat the soil with compost, and leaves, and alfalfa etc. Then weather willing and sufficient water, things turn out pretty good. A lawn is the same. A well fed garden has few pests and little need for harsh chemicals, and I suspect the same goes for lawns. At the end of the day grass is a plant like any other.
You’re overthinking this.

I’m not a high input guy. I do use Oceangro (a local alternative to Milorganite). But not at the rates others here suggest.

That said, the benefit of using biosolid fertilizer like Milo is that it’s a pretty mild nitrogen fertilizer. One could use Urea, but the chances of over applying and burning your lawn is much higher with Urea.

There are folks here who apply Milorganite weekly without killing their grass. That dovetails nicely with the Philes approach. I don’t believe Philes’ emphasis was on anything but using a higher nitrogen rate. It had nothing to do with micronutrients.

Using Urea is possible in tiny applications. But it isn’t something I would suggest for the average person. There is just too much risk.

But again, I think the Philes approach is unnecessary for the average person who wants a great lawn (Kentucky Bluegrass or otherwise). The cost vs benefit is simply not worth it (for most people).
Turf_toes, what regimen do you follow to get best bang for buck?

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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by turf_toes » April 19th, 2019, 5:35 pm

I put down Oceango about once a month or so. Sometimes every six weeks. Then I use a high in nitrogen fertilizer in the fall.

I understand that others apply more frequently. But for me, I’m trying to balance the need for feeding the lawn against the risk of creating a perfect environment for lawn disease.

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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by northeastlawn » April 19th, 2019, 7:01 pm

An approach I use and used last year with my newly reno'd KBG was to put down BSF (Milorganite) at 1/2 bag rate every other week. That way some nitrogen is always being released, but I'm actually putting down BSF (Milorganite) at bag rate once a month.

It works out well with the soil plan of adding SOP. Every other app gets either SOP or a macro I have to add.

I then slowly add serenade apps to the weeks I don't apply BSF, and I end up putting one thing down a week.

It might be too much work for some, but it works out well for me and is easy to keep track of.

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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » April 20th, 2019, 6:45 pm

So I put my 2nd .5# of N per thousand today and I already need my 2nd cut from the first application.

Is there any concern about the N forcing top growth and taking away from rootgrowth which will cause it to spread?

Or is that not a factor because the kbg will get constantly fed N going forward. Seems like this could be a flaw with the Philes approach.

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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » April 20th, 2019, 9:51 pm

I dont put that much thought into how much N other than I'll grab a scoop of milo or urea and hit areas that need it, like the grub damaged spots. Did that tonight actually using milo.

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Re: Philes Approach best practice for Kbg

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » April 20th, 2019, 9:55 pm

Fullheadofturf1234 wrote:
April 20th, 2019, 6:45 pm
So I put my 2nd .5# of N per thousand today and I already need my 2nd cut from the first application.

Is there any concern about the N forcing top growth and taking away from rootgrowth which will cause it to spread?

Or is that not a factor because the kbg will get constantly fed N going forward. Seems like this could be a flaw with the Philes approach.
Yes you will have to cut more but you would anyways with the spring flush.

I love using my hand spreader to hit spots. Super easy to run out and make a light application. By light I mean <.25 lbs per K. I'll put 2 lbs in my hand spreader and just breeze over spots etc

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