How bad do new TTTF cultivars look in a KBG/RG/FF lawn?

[CreepyPurpleFescue]

Some areas of my lawn (such as bare patches and some thin problem areas) I would like to incorporate tall fescue in. However, it seems most places say that TTTF is outright not compatible with a "sun and shade mix" type lawn because it will form clumps and be taller than the surrounding grass.

Yet, other places say newer varieties of TTTF have thinner blades, and limited rhizome formation. Furthermore, it seems that some southern mixes (I'm just bringing this up as an example) for shade are just various TTTFs. Also, some commercial blends (not many, but some) have TTTF mixed with KBG, FF, and even rye.

So just wondering if any lawn enthusiasts out there can give me a bit of wisdom on this. (If you're wondering, after informed research it seems TTTF is actually the best (or at least a good) grass for damp, clay soils. But if its gonna look terrible most likely (to be in areas with probably mostly low-quality FF and a little RG).

[Green]

I wouldn't patch an area in a FF/KBG/PR lawn using TTTF if appearance/consistency matters. It will produce dense, dark green medium to coarse texture, stiff feeling patches if you do that, which might not match the surrounding lawn. In all likelihood, it'll look better, and make the rest of the lawn look bad.

That said, if you're seeding from scratch or doing a heavy overseed of an existing lawn, TTTF can be a great choice in a mix. You really need to keep it above 50% by weight to look good in a mix, though.

So, if you're planning to incorporate Tall Fescue, it either needs to be done everywhere, or in a fairly defined section. You'll need to dethatch with a good rake (like the Groundskeeper, which I use) to get good seed to soil contact. If you do that, it can be done. I've done it. I use 6-7 lbs per thousand of seed.

[jcs43920]

I would not use by itself to patch simply because the texture and color will stand out and won’t blend in. If you do patch I would mix it in with a sun and shade that way it blends better. I was mowing my parents lawn last week and they used turf type to patch some areas around their driveway a couple years ago. And while the color of it looks nice it didn’t blend in with the rest of it at all.



With that said if you really want some tttf in your lawn I would do what the previous poster said and do a heavy overseed with the lawn dethatched and arieated to get good seed soil contact. If not you will hardly even be able to notice any difference at all.

[andy10917]

Why would you recommend dethatching if the OP never said that he had thatch? I don't get it. And core aeration is like to add more problems (digging up weed seeds that will germinate).

[Green]

Why would you recommend dethatching if the OP never said that he had thatch? I don't get it. And core aeration is like to add more problems (digging up weed seeds that will germinate).

I think my comment about aggressive manual raking prior to overseeding is what got us going down this avenue. I called it a dethatch for lack of a better term. But the rake I use really doesn't bring up any live grass if it's used properly...just dead stuff. I'm not necessarily trying to scratch the soil up...just to remove the dead parts prior to overseeding for good seed to soil contact. Without doing so, the seeds tend to get tied up in the turf and dead grass blades underneath. I know it sounds crazy, but that particular style of rake (very narrow, springy, flexible tines which I recently learned are replaceable) really does the trick. It's not the only one I use, but I use it a lot for this purpose. It also takes very little effort. The one I mentioned above is not marketed as a dethatching rake, and it has a totally different design, as mentioned as well. I don't believe I've ever overseeded mature grass without some raking first.

[jcs43920]

Why would you recommend dethatching if the OP never said that he had thatch? I don't get it. And core aeration is like to add more problems (digging up weed seeds that will germinate).

If you are going to add a grass type to a lawn the best way to do it is by over seeding. It’s best to do your overseeding at the same time as Ariation and dethatching because dethatching is going to give you much better seed soil contact and the ariation needs done in the fall. It just makes more sense to do it all at the same time. If you are concerned about weed seeds just put some Scotts starter fert with tenacity done. Ariation will always do more good for your lawn then bad especially in the fall. By the next spring you can put down prodiamine and be fine.

[turf_toes]

I think you’re missing the bigger pictures. For most home lawns, aeration and dethatching aren’t necessary.

For folks with Rye and Tall Fescue, dethatching is never an issue. Those grasses simply don’t produce thatch. (Dead matted grass is not thatch)

There are better ways to handle compacted soil than core aeration. Those are services lawn companies sell that are rarely needed by an average homeowner. It’s a great thing to do if you run a local lawncare company. It’s a nice way to generate money for the business. Those services can also lead to weed pressure; which keeps the customer coming back for weed control services.

Core Aeration and Dethatching, in the vast majority of cases, are a waste of money for their customers though.

[bpgreen]

I think the reccommendation to core aerate and dethatch is to increase seed to soil contact. But the general consensus here is that the risks outweigh the benefits.

If you have bare spots that need to be overseeded, you won't need to aerate. If you need to aerate to expose soil, you probably don't need to overseed.