What's happening to my blade tips

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
Leifcat1
Posts: 200
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 6:05 pm
Location: Northwest Iowa
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Leifcat1 » June 19th, 2019, 8:13 pm

For all of 2018 and so far in 2019, I have been plagued by shredded tips of my grass blades. It gives my lawn the worst color and cannot be good for plant health.

Why is this happening?

Yes, my blades are sharpened. Even put on a new set of hi-lift blades on Saturday. Same thing happens with standard blades too.

My blades are not on upside down either.

Any suggestions?


Image

Image

Image

john5246
Posts: 227
Joined: August 24th, 2018, 8:44 pm
Location: Chicago
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by john5246 » June 19th, 2019, 8:16 pm

use the original blade made for your mower, not an after market blade
I think should fix your problem, but keep us updated

Leifcat1
Posts: 200
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 6:05 pm
Location: Northwest Iowa
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Leifcat1 » June 19th, 2019, 8:42 pm

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, that isn't causing the problem. I order my blades direct from Toro despite the higher price of the blades I can find at the local hardware store.

ENVY23
Posts: 721
Joined: April 20th, 2014, 1:48 pm
Location: E. Tennessee
Grass Type: KBG: Midnight, Bluebank, Mazama
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Some Experience

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by ENVY23 » June 19th, 2019, 8:47 pm

You’re on the right track, I definitely think it’s your mower. If the blades are good, it could be that you’re mowing too fast, or your mower isn’t running at a high enough RPM to achieve proper blade tip speed. If both of those are fine, your deck belt may be loose and slipping ever so slightly, not allowing the blades to maintain proper blade tip speed. I would check those three. What kind of mower are you cutting with?

HSB3-LI
Posts: 145
Joined: November 3rd, 2014, 2:40 pm
Location: Long Island NY
Grass Type: Blueberry, Midnight, Prosperity Kentucky Bluegrass
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Experienced

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by HSB3-LI » June 19th, 2019, 8:49 pm

I have had the same problem with three different mowers all with sharp blades, deck properly leveled, and engine rpm in spec. Interested to see what else might contribute to this...


Leifcat1
Posts: 200
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 6:05 pm
Location: Northwest Iowa
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Leifcat1 » June 19th, 2019, 8:55 pm

HSB3-LI wrote:
June 19th, 2019, 8:49 pm
I have had the same problem with three different mowers all with sharp blades, deck properly leveled, and engine rpm in spec. Interested to see what else might contribute to this...
I'm only guessing here....but sometimes I worry about the amount of heat that my mower is putting out. The muffler is awfully close to the ground so I'm wondering if the excess heat is having a nasty effect on my cut quality.

Sometimes if I briefly park the mower to pick up sticks (with the motor still running), I'll see burnt spots in the lawn where it was parked within 24-48 hours.

Just a weird hypothesis of mine. I have no idea of that's what's causing the shredded tips.

Leifcat1
Posts: 200
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 6:05 pm
Location: Northwest Iowa
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Leifcat1 » June 19th, 2019, 8:58 pm

ENVY23 wrote:
June 19th, 2019, 8:47 pm
You’re on the right track, I definitely think it’s your mower. If the blades are good, it could be that you’re mowing too fast, or your mower isn’t running at a high enough RPM to achieve proper blade tip speed. If both of those are fine, your deck belt may be loose and slipping ever so slightly, not allowing the blades to maintain proper blade tip speed. I would check those three. What kind of mower are you cutting with?
I am using a Toro SW4200.

I'm going to take my mower to the Toro dealer this weekendto have them evaluate your recommendations above. Thank you for the suggestions.

john5246
Posts: 227
Joined: August 24th, 2018, 8:44 pm
Location: Chicago
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by john5246 » June 20th, 2019, 4:21 pm

Leifcat1 wrote:
June 19th, 2019, 8:58 pm
ENVY23 wrote:
June 19th, 2019, 8:47 pm
You’re on the right track, I definitely think it’s your mower. If the blades are good, it could be that you’re mowing too fast, or your mower isn’t running at a high enough RPM to achieve proper blade tip speed. If both of those are fine, your deck belt may be loose and slipping ever so slightly, not allowing the blades to maintain proper blade tip speed. I would check those three. What kind of mower are you cutting with?
I am using a Toro SW4200.

I'm going to take my mower to the Toro dealer this weekendto have them evaluate your recommendations above. Thank you for the suggestions.
can you do a cut going over it very slow to check if that's the problem as the other person mentioned (that you maybe moving too fast)

Leifcat1
Posts: 200
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 6:05 pm
Location: Northwest Iowa
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Leifcat1 » June 20th, 2019, 5:52 pm

john5246 wrote:
June 20th, 2019, 4:21 pm
Leifcat1 wrote:
June 19th, 2019, 8:58 pm
ENVY23 wrote:
June 19th, 2019, 8:47 pm
You’re on the right track, I definitely think it’s your mower. If the blades are good, it could be that you’re mowing too fast, or your mower isn’t running at a high enough RPM to achieve proper blade tip speed. If both of those are fine, your deck belt may be loose and slipping ever so slightly, not allowing the blades to maintain proper blade tip speed. I would check those three. What kind of mower are you cutting with?
I am using a Toro SW4200.

I'm going to take my mower to the Toro dealer this weekendto have them evaluate your recommendations above. Thank you for the suggestions.
can you do a cut going over it very slow to check if that's the problem as the other person mentioned (that you maybe moving too fast)
I will give that a try this evening

Wors
Posts: 45
Joined: April 10th, 2017, 9:01 pm
Location: Iowa
Grass Type: Kentucky Bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Wors » June 21st, 2019, 8:45 am

I am not familiar with the Toro SW4200.

Do you have a mulch kit installed and/or discharge closed? If so, remove the mulch kit and open the discharge. Check and see if it makes a difference. I know my old timemaster would do what you experience if I had the discharge closed. When I opened it up the problem went away. The timemaster didn't give me a clean cut mulching/cutting thick KBG(not removing more than 1/3").

Sorry to ask the obvious but you aren't cutting more than 1/3" and the underside of the deck is clean?

Paul
Posts: 366
Joined: August 24th, 2014, 4:25 pm
Location: Southeastern Mass
Grass Type: Bewitched KBG Monostand
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Paul » June 21st, 2019, 10:10 am

New blades out of the box are not sharp. They need to be filed so you can cut paper with them. Not sure if this is your problem or not?

User avatar
HoosierLawnGnome
Posts: 9591
Joined: May 22nd, 2013, 5:59 pm
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Grass Type: Blueberry KBG
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » June 21st, 2019, 11:01 am

Obviously your mower is shredding the blade rather than cutting it cleanly.

You don't have to shave with the blade, but it does need sharpened. Seriously - is it mounted backwards? (Don't laugh, but I've done this before....)

Is the torque properly set on the blade nut?

If that's in order, check the RPM to manufacturer spec. You can install an inexpensive tachometer to monitor it, takes about an hour or two and $20. The RPM may change as you cut. If you take it to the mechanic, they may only check it while running and not cutting a really thick turf. (Not the sparse vegetation they have growing in their hell strip out front)

Cut when it's dry. The rain can cause poor cutting.

Then monitor your speed. On really thick turf you'll need to slow down, maintaining that RPM.

If all that is in order, I'd look at getting a new machine.

User avatar
HoosierLawnGnome
Posts: 9591
Joined: May 22nd, 2013, 5:59 pm
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Grass Type: Blueberry KBG
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » June 21st, 2019, 11:08 am

Before you take it in, check that the blade isn't installed backwards (my prime suspect).

Then check the torque on the nut.

THEN, consider taking it to the mechanic and make sure they test it's RPM properly. (They probably won't) They need to put that engine under some load to see how it performs and I doubt they have any stand of turf to test it on that looks anywhere near as good as yours.

Leifcat1
Posts: 200
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 6:05 pm
Location: Northwest Iowa
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Leifcat1 » June 21st, 2019, 11:28 am

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
June 21st, 2019, 11:08 am
Before you take it in, check that the blade isn't installed backwards (my prime suspect).

Then check the torque on the nut.

THEN, consider taking it to the mechanic and make sure they test it's RPM properly. (They probably won't) They need to put that engine under some load to see how it performs and I doubt they have any stand of turf to test it on that looks anywhere near as good as yours.
The blades are not on upside down. But you could be onto something with how they're torqued. I must admit that I'm not very good at fixing machinery. (More of a computer nerd). I know about enough to change my own oil, spark plugs, and the fuel & air filters. When I put the blades on, I use a cheap, electric torque gun to tighten the bolt. Perhaps I'm over-tightening the bolt. Maybe I should tighten it with hand tools to see if that makes a difference. I was always afraid of the blades flying off during a mow.

So if I understand you correctly, over-tightening the bolt affects the cut quality by slowing down the blades?

Thank you

User avatar
HoosierLawnGnome
Posts: 9591
Joined: May 22nd, 2013, 5:59 pm
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Grass Type: Blueberry KBG
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » June 21st, 2019, 11:43 am

Leifcat1 wrote:
June 21st, 2019, 11:28 am
HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
June 21st, 2019, 11:08 am
Before you take it in, check that the blade isn't installed backwards (my prime suspect).

Then check the torque on the nut.

THEN, consider taking it to the mechanic and make sure they test it's RPM properly. (They probably won't) They need to put that engine under some load to see how it performs and I doubt they have any stand of turf to test it on that looks anywhere near as good as yours.
The blades are not on upside down. But you could be onto something with how they're torqued. I must admit that I'm not very good at fixing machinery. (More of a computer nerd). I know about enough to change my own oil, spark plugs, and the fuel & air filters. When I put the blades on, I use a cheap, electric torque gun to tighten the bolt. Perhaps I'm over-tightening the bolt. Maybe I should tighten it with hand tools to see if that makes a difference. I was always afraid of the blades flying off during a mow.

So if I understand you correctly, over-tightening the bolt affects the cut quality by slowing down the blades?

Thank you
Got it - I had this exact issue once when I put the timemaster blades on backwards :banghead:

Under tightening the bolt would be more of the issue. Overtightening would be the safer side of that setting. Sometimes those torques can be pretty high and hard to attain with an inexpensive torque gun. The issue is if it gets loose, the blade may wobble or not be spun as fast as the engine is turning it.

You have a great stand of turf; you might be exceeding what your machinery is capable of handling, but the Toro Timecutter series are good machines - especially if you have the commercial engine in it.

I'm a computer guy too, who got into mechanical stuff when I got into this hobby.

Leifcat1
Posts: 200
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 6:05 pm
Location: Northwest Iowa
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Leifcat1 » June 21st, 2019, 5:14 pm

Although I believe I have the blades on correctly, I want to ask what the correct position is. I feel dumb for even asking this, but please keep in mind that I never touched a lawn mower until I was 30.

Since I'm using hi-lift blades, I need to make sure that the "wings" are pointed up towards the top of the deck, correct? I always assumed they needed to be pointed up to create the updraft. Have I been mistaken? If so, I'll gladly eat a slice of humble pie.

HSB3-LI
Posts: 145
Joined: November 3rd, 2014, 2:40 pm
Location: Long Island NY
Grass Type: Blueberry, Midnight, Prosperity Kentucky Bluegrass
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Experienced

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by HSB3-LI » June 22nd, 2019, 8:38 am

Correct

Leifcat1
Posts: 200
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 6:05 pm
Location: Northwest Iowa
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Leifcat1 » June 28th, 2019, 6:57 pm

Update:

I took my mower to the Toro dealer and explained what was happening. The dealer noticed that the blades were slightly (and I mean slightly) loose. He stated that my deck spindle bearings may have gone bad, and he replaced them. He also resharpened my blades, even though they're virtually new. The deck was also leveled front/back and side to side.

I came home and immediately mowed to see if I could notice any difference. I'll say that the cut quality has been much improved however, it is still far from perfect.

Upon further inspection, I decided to look a little deeper at the ripped & shredded grass blades. It appears that the grass blades are cutting pretty cleanly for the most part. However, I have an infestation of KBG seedheads growing over most of my 10k sq ft. The seed stalks are the only items that are cutting terribly.

I realize that this is a common experience with seedheads, but I'm shocked at how long they're sticking around. I've had seedheads in the past, but never this amount, and they've never persisted this late into June.

I'm in uncharted territory now. Can I really expect to deal with seedheads all season long? There's nothing I can do to get rid of them, I get that. I just cant stand the grayish-white, mustard-green color that they're giving my lawn after it's been cut.

User avatar
ken-n-nancy
Posts: 2571
Joined: July 17th, 2014, 3:58 pm
Location: Bedford, NH
Grass Type: Front: KBG (Bewitched+Prosperity); Side: Bewitched KBG; Back: Fine Fescue Blend + Prosperity
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by ken-n-nancy » June 28th, 2019, 7:36 pm

Leifcat1 wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 6:57 pm
... I came home and immediately mowed to see if I could notice any difference. I'll say that the cut quality has been much improved however, it is still far from perfect.

... The seed stalks are the only items that are cutting terribly.

Can I really expect to deal with seedheads all season long? There's nothing I can do to get rid of them, I get that. I just cant stand the grayish-white, mustard-green color that they're giving my lawn after it's been cut.
Glad to hear that the mower is cutting better now. Congrats!

A "trick" that you can do when your grass is growing well, but there is brown showing from old, dead growth (such as seed heads, or a dormant grass type in a Northern mix, etc.) is to mow your grass one notch lower on your mower than your normal cut height, for just one mowing. (One notch is typically 1/2" on most rotary mowers.) The grass will look pretty ugly when you do this. However, 3-4 days later when the grass would be ready for it's next mowing, mow at the normal height and continue mowing at that height.

What the "temporarily one notch lower" mowing will do is trim off all the dead grass or seed stalks 1/2" lower than the normal cut height, so that when you return to your normal cut height with your next mowing, all of the brown stalks will be a half-inch lower than the green growing grass. This will do a pretty good job of hiding the brown when viewing the lawn at a normal angle. You'll still be able to see the brown when standing in the lawn and looking straight down at the grass at your feet, but when looking at your lawn from the street or the sidewalk, it will look much greener.

Leifcat1
Posts: 200
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 6:05 pm
Location: Northwest Iowa
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: What's happening to my blade tips

Post by Leifcat1 » June 28th, 2019, 8:02 pm

Great idea, K&N!

I'm currently cutting at 3.5. The temps are going to be in the 90's for most of the next week in my part of NW Iowa so I'll have to wait until it cools down a bit before I drop the deck down to 3.0. Regardless, I like your rationale and I will let you know how it turns out. Most likely next week.

Does anyone know if my excessive seedheads are an unintended consequence of using excess phosphorus-containing fertilizers?

I used starter fertilizer last fall during a (failed) KBG overseeding project. I used more starter fertilizer again earlier this spring when I tried fixing my failed project from last fall. I realize that phosphorus should be used only when a soil test indicates that is needed. However, I've never had any undesirable results, until recently.

I sure appreciate everyone's help with this!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests