What's happening to my blade tips
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- Posts: 200
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What's happening to my blade tips
For all of 2018 and so far in 2019, I have been plagued by shredded tips of my grass blades. It gives my lawn the worst color and cannot be good for plant health.
Why is this happening?
Yes, my blades are sharpened. Even put on a new set of hi-lift blades on Saturday. Same thing happens with standard blades too.
My blades are not on upside down either.
Any suggestions?
Why is this happening?
Yes, my blades are sharpened. Even put on a new set of hi-lift blades on Saturday. Same thing happens with standard blades too.
My blades are not on upside down either.
Any suggestions?
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
use the original blade made for your mower, not an after market blade
I think should fix your problem, but keep us updated
I think should fix your problem, but keep us updated
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- Posts: 200
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, that isn't causing the problem. I order my blades direct from Toro despite the higher price of the blades I can find at the local hardware store.
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
You’re on the right track, I definitely think it’s your mower. If the blades are good, it could be that you’re mowing too fast, or your mower isn’t running at a high enough RPM to achieve proper blade tip speed. If both of those are fine, your deck belt may be loose and slipping ever so slightly, not allowing the blades to maintain proper blade tip speed. I would check those three. What kind of mower are you cutting with?
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
I have had the same problem with three different mowers all with sharp blades, deck properly leveled, and engine rpm in spec. Interested to see what else might contribute to this...
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
I'm only guessing here....but sometimes I worry about the amount of heat that my mower is putting out. The muffler is awfully close to the ground so I'm wondering if the excess heat is having a nasty effect on my cut quality.
Sometimes if I briefly park the mower to pick up sticks (with the motor still running), I'll see burnt spots in the lawn where it was parked within 24-48 hours.
Just a weird hypothesis of mine. I have no idea of that's what's causing the shredded tips.
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
I am using a Toro SW4200.ENVY23 wrote: ↑June 19th, 2019, 8:47 pmYou’re on the right track, I definitely think it’s your mower. If the blades are good, it could be that you’re mowing too fast, or your mower isn’t running at a high enough RPM to achieve proper blade tip speed. If both of those are fine, your deck belt may be loose and slipping ever so slightly, not allowing the blades to maintain proper blade tip speed. I would check those three. What kind of mower are you cutting with?
I'm going to take my mower to the Toro dealer this weekendto have them evaluate your recommendations above. Thank you for the suggestions.
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
can you do a cut going over it very slow to check if that's the problem as the other person mentioned (that you maybe moving too fast)Leifcat1 wrote: ↑June 19th, 2019, 8:58 pmI am using a Toro SW4200.ENVY23 wrote: ↑June 19th, 2019, 8:47 pmYou’re on the right track, I definitely think it’s your mower. If the blades are good, it could be that you’re mowing too fast, or your mower isn’t running at a high enough RPM to achieve proper blade tip speed. If both of those are fine, your deck belt may be loose and slipping ever so slightly, not allowing the blades to maintain proper blade tip speed. I would check those three. What kind of mower are you cutting with?
I'm going to take my mower to the Toro dealer this weekendto have them evaluate your recommendations above. Thank you for the suggestions.
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
I will give that a try this eveningjohn5246 wrote: ↑June 20th, 2019, 4:21 pmcan you do a cut going over it very slow to check if that's the problem as the other person mentioned (that you maybe moving too fast)Leifcat1 wrote: ↑June 19th, 2019, 8:58 pmI am using a Toro SW4200.ENVY23 wrote: ↑June 19th, 2019, 8:47 pmYou’re on the right track, I definitely think it’s your mower. If the blades are good, it could be that you’re mowing too fast, or your mower isn’t running at a high enough RPM to achieve proper blade tip speed. If both of those are fine, your deck belt may be loose and slipping ever so slightly, not allowing the blades to maintain proper blade tip speed. I would check those three. What kind of mower are you cutting with?
I'm going to take my mower to the Toro dealer this weekendto have them evaluate your recommendations above. Thank you for the suggestions.
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
I am not familiar with the Toro SW4200.
Do you have a mulch kit installed and/or discharge closed? If so, remove the mulch kit and open the discharge. Check and see if it makes a difference. I know my old timemaster would do what you experience if I had the discharge closed. When I opened it up the problem went away. The timemaster didn't give me a clean cut mulching/cutting thick KBG(not removing more than 1/3").
Sorry to ask the obvious but you aren't cutting more than 1/3" and the underside of the deck is clean?
Do you have a mulch kit installed and/or discharge closed? If so, remove the mulch kit and open the discharge. Check and see if it makes a difference. I know my old timemaster would do what you experience if I had the discharge closed. When I opened it up the problem went away. The timemaster didn't give me a clean cut mulching/cutting thick KBG(not removing more than 1/3").
Sorry to ask the obvious but you aren't cutting more than 1/3" and the underside of the deck is clean?
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
New blades out of the box are not sharp. They need to be filed so you can cut paper with them. Not sure if this is your problem or not?
- HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
Obviously your mower is shredding the blade rather than cutting it cleanly.
You don't have to shave with the blade, but it does need sharpened. Seriously - is it mounted backwards? (Don't laugh, but I've done this before....)
Is the torque properly set on the blade nut?
If that's in order, check the RPM to manufacturer spec. You can install an inexpensive tachometer to monitor it, takes about an hour or two and $20. The RPM may change as you cut. If you take it to the mechanic, they may only check it while running and not cutting a really thick turf. (Not the sparse vegetation they have growing in their hell strip out front)
Cut when it's dry. The rain can cause poor cutting.
Then monitor your speed. On really thick turf you'll need to slow down, maintaining that RPM.
If all that is in order, I'd look at getting a new machine.
You don't have to shave with the blade, but it does need sharpened. Seriously - is it mounted backwards? (Don't laugh, but I've done this before....)
Is the torque properly set on the blade nut?
If that's in order, check the RPM to manufacturer spec. You can install an inexpensive tachometer to monitor it, takes about an hour or two and $20. The RPM may change as you cut. If you take it to the mechanic, they may only check it while running and not cutting a really thick turf. (Not the sparse vegetation they have growing in their hell strip out front)
Cut when it's dry. The rain can cause poor cutting.
Then monitor your speed. On really thick turf you'll need to slow down, maintaining that RPM.
If all that is in order, I'd look at getting a new machine.
- HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
Before you take it in, check that the blade isn't installed backwards (my prime suspect).
Then check the torque on the nut.
THEN, consider taking it to the mechanic and make sure they test it's RPM properly. (They probably won't) They need to put that engine under some load to see how it performs and I doubt they have any stand of turf to test it on that looks anywhere near as good as yours.
Then check the torque on the nut.
THEN, consider taking it to the mechanic and make sure they test it's RPM properly. (They probably won't) They need to put that engine under some load to see how it performs and I doubt they have any stand of turf to test it on that looks anywhere near as good as yours.
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
The blades are not on upside down. But you could be onto something with how they're torqued. I must admit that I'm not very good at fixing machinery. (More of a computer nerd). I know about enough to change my own oil, spark plugs, and the fuel & air filters. When I put the blades on, I use a cheap, electric torque gun to tighten the bolt. Perhaps I'm over-tightening the bolt. Maybe I should tighten it with hand tools to see if that makes a difference. I was always afraid of the blades flying off during a mow.HoosierLawnGnome wrote: ↑June 21st, 2019, 11:08 amBefore you take it in, check that the blade isn't installed backwards (my prime suspect).
Then check the torque on the nut.
THEN, consider taking it to the mechanic and make sure they test it's RPM properly. (They probably won't) They need to put that engine under some load to see how it performs and I doubt they have any stand of turf to test it on that looks anywhere near as good as yours.
So if I understand you correctly, over-tightening the bolt affects the cut quality by slowing down the blades?
Thank you
- HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
Got it - I had this exact issue once when I put the timemaster blades on backwardsLeifcat1 wrote: ↑June 21st, 2019, 11:28 amThe blades are not on upside down. But you could be onto something with how they're torqued. I must admit that I'm not very good at fixing machinery. (More of a computer nerd). I know about enough to change my own oil, spark plugs, and the fuel & air filters. When I put the blades on, I use a cheap, electric torque gun to tighten the bolt. Perhaps I'm over-tightening the bolt. Maybe I should tighten it with hand tools to see if that makes a difference. I was always afraid of the blades flying off during a mow.HoosierLawnGnome wrote: ↑June 21st, 2019, 11:08 amBefore you take it in, check that the blade isn't installed backwards (my prime suspect).
Then check the torque on the nut.
THEN, consider taking it to the mechanic and make sure they test it's RPM properly. (They probably won't) They need to put that engine under some load to see how it performs and I doubt they have any stand of turf to test it on that looks anywhere near as good as yours.
So if I understand you correctly, over-tightening the bolt affects the cut quality by slowing down the blades?
Thank you
Under tightening the bolt would be more of the issue. Overtightening would be the safer side of that setting. Sometimes those torques can be pretty high and hard to attain with an inexpensive torque gun. The issue is if it gets loose, the blade may wobble or not be spun as fast as the engine is turning it.
You have a great stand of turf; you might be exceeding what your machinery is capable of handling, but the Toro Timecutter series are good machines - especially if you have the commercial engine in it.
I'm a computer guy too, who got into mechanical stuff when I got into this hobby.
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
Although I believe I have the blades on correctly, I want to ask what the correct position is. I feel dumb for even asking this, but please keep in mind that I never touched a lawn mower until I was 30.
Since I'm using hi-lift blades, I need to make sure that the "wings" are pointed up towards the top of the deck, correct? I always assumed they needed to be pointed up to create the updraft. Have I been mistaken? If so, I'll gladly eat a slice of humble pie.
Since I'm using hi-lift blades, I need to make sure that the "wings" are pointed up towards the top of the deck, correct? I always assumed they needed to be pointed up to create the updraft. Have I been mistaken? If so, I'll gladly eat a slice of humble pie.
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
Update:
I took my mower to the Toro dealer and explained what was happening. The dealer noticed that the blades were slightly (and I mean slightly) loose. He stated that my deck spindle bearings may have gone bad, and he replaced them. He also resharpened my blades, even though they're virtually new. The deck was also leveled front/back and side to side.
I came home and immediately mowed to see if I could notice any difference. I'll say that the cut quality has been much improved however, it is still far from perfect.
Upon further inspection, I decided to look a little deeper at the ripped & shredded grass blades. It appears that the grass blades are cutting pretty cleanly for the most part. However, I have an infestation of KBG seedheads growing over most of my 10k sq ft. The seed stalks are the only items that are cutting terribly.
I realize that this is a common experience with seedheads, but I'm shocked at how long they're sticking around. I've had seedheads in the past, but never this amount, and they've never persisted this late into June.
I'm in uncharted territory now. Can I really expect to deal with seedheads all season long? There's nothing I can do to get rid of them, I get that. I just cant stand the grayish-white, mustard-green color that they're giving my lawn after it's been cut.
I took my mower to the Toro dealer and explained what was happening. The dealer noticed that the blades were slightly (and I mean slightly) loose. He stated that my deck spindle bearings may have gone bad, and he replaced them. He also resharpened my blades, even though they're virtually new. The deck was also leveled front/back and side to side.
I came home and immediately mowed to see if I could notice any difference. I'll say that the cut quality has been much improved however, it is still far from perfect.
Upon further inspection, I decided to look a little deeper at the ripped & shredded grass blades. It appears that the grass blades are cutting pretty cleanly for the most part. However, I have an infestation of KBG seedheads growing over most of my 10k sq ft. The seed stalks are the only items that are cutting terribly.
I realize that this is a common experience with seedheads, but I'm shocked at how long they're sticking around. I've had seedheads in the past, but never this amount, and they've never persisted this late into June.
I'm in uncharted territory now. Can I really expect to deal with seedheads all season long? There's nothing I can do to get rid of them, I get that. I just cant stand the grayish-white, mustard-green color that they're giving my lawn after it's been cut.
- ken-n-nancy
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
Glad to hear that the mower is cutting better now. Congrats!Leifcat1 wrote: ↑June 28th, 2019, 6:57 pm... I came home and immediately mowed to see if I could notice any difference. I'll say that the cut quality has been much improved however, it is still far from perfect.
... The seed stalks are the only items that are cutting terribly.
Can I really expect to deal with seedheads all season long? There's nothing I can do to get rid of them, I get that. I just cant stand the grayish-white, mustard-green color that they're giving my lawn after it's been cut.
A "trick" that you can do when your grass is growing well, but there is brown showing from old, dead growth (such as seed heads, or a dormant grass type in a Northern mix, etc.) is to mow your grass one notch lower on your mower than your normal cut height, for just one mowing. (One notch is typically 1/2" on most rotary mowers.) The grass will look pretty ugly when you do this. However, 3-4 days later when the grass would be ready for it's next mowing, mow at the normal height and continue mowing at that height.
What the "temporarily one notch lower" mowing will do is trim off all the dead grass or seed stalks 1/2" lower than the normal cut height, so that when you return to your normal cut height with your next mowing, all of the brown stalks will be a half-inch lower than the green growing grass. This will do a pretty good job of hiding the brown when viewing the lawn at a normal angle. You'll still be able to see the brown when standing in the lawn and looking straight down at the grass at your feet, but when looking at your lawn from the street or the sidewalk, it will look much greener.
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Re: What's happening to my blade tips
Great idea, K&N!
I'm currently cutting at 3.5. The temps are going to be in the 90's for most of the next week in my part of NW Iowa so I'll have to wait until it cools down a bit before I drop the deck down to 3.0. Regardless, I like your rationale and I will let you know how it turns out. Most likely next week.
Does anyone know if my excessive seedheads are an unintended consequence of using excess phosphorus-containing fertilizers?
I used starter fertilizer last fall during a (failed) KBG overseeding project. I used more starter fertilizer again earlier this spring when I tried fixing my failed project from last fall. I realize that phosphorus should be used only when a soil test indicates that is needed. However, I've never had any undesirable results, until recently.
I sure appreciate everyone's help with this!
I'm currently cutting at 3.5. The temps are going to be in the 90's for most of the next week in my part of NW Iowa so I'll have to wait until it cools down a bit before I drop the deck down to 3.0. Regardless, I like your rationale and I will let you know how it turns out. Most likely next week.
Does anyone know if my excessive seedheads are an unintended consequence of using excess phosphorus-containing fertilizers?
I used starter fertilizer last fall during a (failed) KBG overseeding project. I used more starter fertilizer again earlier this spring when I tried fixing my failed project from last fall. I realize that phosphorus should be used only when a soil test indicates that is needed. However, I've never had any undesirable results, until recently.
I sure appreciate everyone's help with this!
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