Nitrogen, Winter, and Warmer Climates
-
- Posts: 417
- Joined: August 7th, 2012, 11:16 am
- Location: OKC, OK
- Grass Type: Front Yard: KBG blend. Back Bewitched/Nuglade
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Experienced
Nitrogen, Winter, and Warmer Climates
I've been brushing up on Andy's Fall Nitrogen Regimen regimen the past few days gearing up for my lawn to come out of summer dormancy. I'm starting to wonder about my large Nitrogen feeding after the pause. I'm also thinking of trying something. I'm thinking about NOT pausing . I'm considering switching out the Pause & Last Application with slower feeding every other week. I always teeter back and forth on this.
I was chewing through the Mesonet data for my area (OKC). My average 4" soil temps through November are 55F with December-Feb around 44F. My Average air temps through that time are all above 52F. I do understand these are estimates from all over and can vary widely. I fully acknowledge I'll get some hard freezes.
I always notice during the winter that I get great green growth (go alliteration!) when the local dogs pee on my yard. If I'm supposed to do what my yard is telling me, it's saying it wants some mid-winter nom noms. I think my yard can stay in summer dormancy longer than any winter dormancy. I wouldn't dream of pushing the N into summer...but winter? Hmmmm.
Any want to talk me out of it? Encourage the experiment? Tell me it's going to be a waste of N? Anything helps.
signed,
Cool Season Grass in a Warm Season Neighborhood
I was chewing through the Mesonet data for my area (OKC). My average 4" soil temps through November are 55F with December-Feb around 44F. My Average air temps through that time are all above 52F. I do understand these are estimates from all over and can vary widely. I fully acknowledge I'll get some hard freezes.
I always notice during the winter that I get great green growth (go alliteration!) when the local dogs pee on my yard. If I'm supposed to do what my yard is telling me, it's saying it wants some mid-winter nom noms. I think my yard can stay in summer dormancy longer than any winter dormancy. I wouldn't dream of pushing the N into summer...but winter? Hmmmm.
Any want to talk me out of it? Encourage the experiment? Tell me it's going to be a waste of N? Anything helps.
signed,
Cool Season Grass in a Warm Season Neighborhood
- HoosierLawnGnome
- Posts: 9591
- Joined: May 22nd, 2013, 5:59 pm
- Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
- Grass Type: Blueberry KBG
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Nitrogen, Winter, and Warmer Climates
See i dont call 44F soil temps winter at all.
Sure the calendar may say winter but the climate sure isnt.
Sure the calendar may say winter but the climate sure isnt.
-
- Posts: 417
- Joined: August 7th, 2012, 11:16 am
- Location: OKC, OK
- Grass Type: Front Yard: KBG blend. Back Bewitched/Nuglade
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Experienced
Re: Nitrogen, Winter, and Warmer Climates
HLG, I'm thinking you wanna see me try it.
- andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Nitrogen, Winter, and Warmer Climates
I know I would like to see the results of this from multiple Transition Zone members. I've always hedged my bets/answers about the Fall Nitrogen Regimens in that area, as I lack empirical data and specifics to advise on a regimen.
- darkcrisis
- Posts: 176
- Joined: October 20th, 2014, 9:31 pm
- Location: Knoxville, TN
- Grass Type: TTTF
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Nitrogen, Winter, and Warmer Climates
Looking up my average soil temperatures in December, Janurary, and Februrary the average is about 40 degrees 0-10cm down. I'm willing to do some testing in the transition zone!
-
- Posts: 417
- Joined: August 7th, 2012, 11:16 am
- Location: OKC, OK
- Grass Type: Front Yard: KBG blend. Back Bewitched/Nuglade
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Experienced
Re: Nitrogen, Winter, and Warmer Climates
Dark, what height do you normally take your lawn down to in winter? Do you think constant feeding your TTTF would be okay?
Andy, as you are more familiar with cooler temps, do you ever fertilize when it’s that cool? Is that like Spring to you? Do you think the .5lb/N every other week seems sufficient?
Andy, as you are more familiar with cooler temps, do you ever fertilize when it’s that cool? Is that like Spring to you? Do you think the .5lb/N every other week seems sufficient?
- andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Nitrogen, Winter, and Warmer Climates
The answer isn't as easy as you'd think, and I'm hoping this isn't going to get "TLDR" reactions...Andy, as you are more familiar with cooler temps, do you ever fertilize when it’s that cool? Is that like Spring to you? Do you think the .5lb/N every other week seems sufficient?
The Fall Nitrogen Regimens thread was built by stealing some techniques from the "Sports Field" folks, and adapting them for home use. I spent years trying to avoid overly-technical pieces of them, and trying to match them up with visual or seasonal cues. What I came up with works pretty well in the North. It (safely) applies a good amount of Nitrogen between September 1st and the date of average (not actual) first frost date to let the grasses roots store it and thickens the lawn. When the average first frost date arrives for a specific location, the Nitrogen is withheld to let the grass move toward winter dormancy at a natural pace. When top-growth ceases completely, one more application is made, as the roots remain active for a window of a few weeks. The cue here is the cessation of top-growth.
So, my answer to your question is I don't measure by temperature, I apply and then use "The Pause" to tell me when the timing is right for the final "winterizing" application.
In the Transition Zone (especially the more Southern parts), you may lack a first-frost date, or it may not be a good reference date for the time when top-growth begins to slow top-growth. And with soil temperatures never getting down to a complete stoppage of top-growth, timing the last application could be problematic.
I'd suggest that you play with what seems to make sense, but be conservative. It's really easy to just continue with the Nitrogen applications, but always bear in mind that Nitrogen will FORCE tender new growth even when the grasses' natural path is toward dormancy. Ask yourself this question: when do you (or do you) stop mowing for the rest of the year and until Spring? Back up from that date maybe 3-4 weeks and that's when you you want to stop and let the grass take its own trajectory toward dormancy. If the grass doesn't ever really stop completely, then maybe the "winterizing" application just isn't needed.
- darkcrisis
- Posts: 176
- Joined: October 20th, 2014, 9:31 pm
- Location: Knoxville, TN
- Grass Type: TTTF
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Nitrogen, Winter, and Warmer Climates
I usually go down to 2.5" or 3" for the winter. I don't think I will constantly feed all the way through the winter but I'm thinking I could go another month and stop mid to late November. Depending on what I am seeing in my lawn and others around me, that may change though.
In years past I have stopped the light nitrogen applications around mid October since that is our average first frost. Last year I did an extra application or two past that. I am typically mowing grass and leaves through November and the beginning of December. I typically winterize around January 1st as the growth has typically stopped then.
I am always ahead of what others are posting in the spring and early summer. Then as the fall season starts I am behind what everyone else is doing in their posts. It makes sense because my temperatures are typically warmer year round by a decent margin.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests