Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
dantis496
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Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by dantis496 » May 12th, 2020, 9:47 am

Hi All,

Back yard Elite KBG is finally getting top growth in SE Mass. However, last Fall I did an overseed with elite KBG mix from SSS. I did not mechanically disturb the soil, used a rotary spreader, but did top dress in areas; areas that now are exploding with Poa Triv...It wouldn't be the seed I put down would it?? And I will do my best to mow high etc. to try and snuff it out, but I think the mild winter we had gave the Triv a very big head start...I know there is no cure other than RU, but don't want to have bare spot all summer. What do you guys do???

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andy10917
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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by andy10917 » May 12th, 2020, 12:05 pm

Did you specify "sod-quality seed, and was that what you received?

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by Paul » May 12th, 2020, 12:30 pm

The problem with an overseed in the fall is that you need to water lightly several times a day to get the new grass to germinate. Light frequent watering just invites things like Poa Annua and Poa Triv.

I had a few big trees taking down last year and re seeded some areas that were very thin due to excessive shade. By taking these trees down, these areas get allot more sun, and look very good now. The problem is, I needed to run my sprinklers 4 times a day to keep the seed moist until it germinated. The whole lawn got watered because I also fixed some other areas as well. I applied Barricade to the areas I didn't seed but probably could of done a better job, I was too Conservative applying it. As a result, I have more Poa Annua that I would like.

From this point on, its pre emergent coverage all year long and let the Bewitched fill in the small bare areas.

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by northeastlawn » May 12th, 2020, 1:37 pm

I have had mixed results with SSS, I ordered a custom KBG a few years ago because I needed just a small quantity and the usual sources want to sell a lot more seed than you use for about 2,000sf. After my reno I didnt get the greatest germination and just assumed it was my fault.

Last year before throwing the old seed out, I tried to grow some pots. I got terrible germination from the KBG in the pots. It really reminded me of the sporadic germination I got from my KBG reno. I'm not sure I am a big fan of them for elite KBG seed. I made sure what I ordered was sod quality, but the poor germination the two times I used the seed has me wondering.

On the other hand I use their FF Shade Mix in the front of my house and that has worked out amazing. Where I could never get a PR mix to grow well, now is the nicest grass on the block. Their Shade Mix has been great.

Its probably impossible to tell if the Triv came from an overseed or was always there. Unless you killed the lawn off in the spring and fallowed it, the triv could have been there dormant waiting for the right conditions to take off.

dantis496
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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by dantis496 » May 12th, 2020, 1:57 pm

Yes, I did specify "sod quality" and it was labeled as such. Just makes me wonder. We had perfect weather last Fall for planting, warm days, cools nights, and I watered lightly etc. Even purchased a reel mower and used that for 8 weeks. Just gets discouraging seeing that light green ugliness...


napper
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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by napper » May 12th, 2020, 4:27 pm

I've heard poacure works but it might be hard to score a bottle.

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by northeastlawn » May 12th, 2020, 5:46 pm

well if its a new lawn and your sure its triv, you do have time to kill it with Glysophate now and let the KBG that came in fill it in.

This might be blaspheme, but you could also kill off the triv then buy some KBG sod at the big box store and replace the triv sections after it dies.

If its a new lawn, its patchy no matter what, adding sod will look weird at first, but it should grown in by the time the rest of the lawn looks like a lawn again.

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by dantis496 » May 13th, 2020, 10:28 am

It is an exiting lawn, and blaspheme ran thru my head as well...I actually looked at the Sod at the orange big box store yesterday.....

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by GMil814 » May 15th, 2021, 11:44 pm

Sorry to revive an old thread but this just happened to me too. I am nearly 100% sure it was the seed from an over seed last spring. I over seeded to fill in some ruts and holes in the lawn from vole damage that just weren't filling in for some reason. Probably mostly my fault I didn't come here sooner as I now think there was a better solution than to over seed. I used SSS (Seed Super Store for those researching like I was) bluegrass blend SS1100. I am now considering nuking what's left after 2 tenacity apps @ approx. 4 oz./Acre roughly about 2 weeks apart between April 20 and May 1. I do see now that they sell Poa Triv seed :shock:

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by Pway » May 16th, 2021, 9:41 am

I have seen more triv this year than ever before. I have seen triv seed heads in my lawn and and elsewhere. I also think the deer in the area graze on it in nearby woods and wetlands and crap it out everywhere, it then spreads. I’m sure my lawn, the golf course, and parks were not caused by contaminated seed.

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by northeastlawn » May 16th, 2021, 12:51 pm

What does triv seedhead look like?

I thought triv didn’t make seedheads if the grass was cut at normal heights.

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by Masbustelo » May 16th, 2021, 1:25 pm

Some of my trivialis sends out shoots sideways about an inch above the ground. Most mowers wouldn't cut it. The seed stalk looks similar to kbg but it is on a rough stalk.

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by GMil814 » May 16th, 2021, 1:51 pm

Pway wrote:
May 16th, 2021, 9:41 am
I have seen more triv this year than ever before. I have seen triv seed heads in my lawn and and elsewhere. I also think the deer in the area graze on it in nearby woods and wetlands and crap it out everywhere, it then spreads. I’m sure my lawn, the golf course, and parks were not caused by contaminated seed.
Are you suggesting that my outbreak is not
From contaminated seed? I really, really want to believe this because it was expensive and I'd hate to have to throw it away but it is everywhere I dropped seed last year. How could it explode like that in 1 season unless it was planted?

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by Pway » May 16th, 2021, 2:39 pm

northeastlawn wrote:
May 16th, 2021, 12:51 pm
What does triv seedhead look like?

I thought triv didn’t make seedheads if the grass was cut at normal heights.
https://weedid.cals.vt.edu/profile/620i

I don’t always get to edge or trim the entire lawn. I see seed heads mostly around trees or garden edges, but I have seen some in the yard. Attached is a link of a picture where you can make out the seed heads.I agree with Masbustelo that sometimes shoots lay close to the ground and a mower might miss them

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by Pway » May 16th, 2021, 2:51 pm

Pway wrote:
May 16th, 2021, 2:39 pm
northeastlawn wrote:
May 16th, 2021, 12:51 pm
What does triv seedhead look like?

I thought triv didn’t make seedheads if the grass was cut at normal heights.
https://extension.umd.edu/resource/roughstalk-bluegrass

https://weedid.cals.vt.edu/profile/620i

I don’t always get to edge or trim the entire lawn. I see seed heads mostly around trees or garden edges, but I have seen some in the yard. Attached is a link of a picture where you can make out the seed heads.I agree with Masbustelo that sometimes shoots lay close to the ground and a mower might miss them

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by MorpheusPA » May 16th, 2021, 4:41 pm

It's entirely possible they're not from the seed, yes. You provided perfect conditions in those locales. You mentioned top dressing...so you held in moisture, atop seeds that were already there. Yeah, that'll do it.

Turns out I have more triv this year than I thought (about eight tiny patches rather than the two I'd estimated). I'm not using RoundUp. This is a good thing because at first I thought it was about 40 patches. Nope, those were just older patches of Bedazzled that are seeding out. Not exactly attractive, but I'm OK with this. Someday I'll RU those and reseed with a more modern cultivar, but they're getting outcompeted slowly anyway and they look great in fall and winter and most springs and summers.

My solution is to use Tenacity. Those patches are now standing out like beacons as they turn white. I'll strike them again in June. And then let summer take a toll on them--and not irrigate. Spring has already been dry. Survival into fall is not highly probable, but if they do, they get tapped again in October before winter hits.

Since your new seed is first-year, survival of that is problematic.

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by GMil814 » May 16th, 2021, 8:29 pm

Sorry Morph,
I revived this thread because it pertained to my situation that I am very upset about and wanted to +1 the possibility that it was contaminated seed from the super store. I believe it was the OP that top dressed. I did not. I just broad cast spread about 5 lbs. Of thier blue grass blend (SS1100) last May on my front lawn and now I have total lawn puke. I could be wrong. I want to be wrong but it is just too extremely coincidental. I am going to do a test area to verify.

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by MorpheusPA » May 16th, 2021, 10:00 pm

I misread then, sorry. But still, maybe not. With bringing in the new seed, you almost certainly gave any triv seed the same care it needed to thrive.

To test, do so in a pot, isolated from any outside influence and potential seed source. You don't need to keep it inside, but you do need to make sure that triv seed can't blow in at any decent rate.

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by andy10917 » May 17th, 2021, 8:14 am

It's important to note in these situations what it is that you bought from SSS. You bought "certified" (blue label) seed, which is a certification that the bag contains grass seed that was properly grown to make sure that it is really the cultivars that are specified on the label. It is NOT the equivalent of "sod quality" (gold label) seed that goes through much more rigorous (and expensive) testing to make sure that there is a very, very low level of "other crop" items like Poa Trivialis seed. It is often hard to find and more expensive, due to looking at each seed in a sample to ascertain that it isn't Triv.

SSS mixed your blend from the supplied bags that the grower and distributor sent to them - they provided the blue-label ("certified") tag for that lot. They have no more idea than you about Triv content. This is why we always are recommending that you spend the extra effort and money to get the best seed ("sod quality"/"gold label"). It's a hard-learned lesson to find out WHY it is worth the extra effort and cost - don't ask me how I learned it.

I know you guys are looking for comfort, which I can't supply - I'm trying to make sure that the experience (frustrating as it is) is learned and the pain doesn't get repeated.

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Re: Poa Triv Explosion...Comfort me

Post by PALawnGuy5 » May 17th, 2021, 7:05 pm

andy10917 wrote:
May 17th, 2021, 8:14 am
It's important to note in these situations what it is that you bought from SSS. You bought "certified" (blue label) seed, which is a certification that the bag contains grass seed that was properly grown to make sure that it is really the cultivars that are specified on the label. It is NOT the equivalent of "sod quality" (gold label) seed that goes through much more rigorous (and expensive) testing to make sure that there is a very, very low level of "other crop" items like Poa Trivialis seed. It is often hard to find and more expensive, due to looking at each seed in a sample to ascertain that it isn't Triv.

SSS mixed your blend from the supplied bags that the grower and distributor sent to them - they provided the blue-label ("certified") tag for that lot. They have no more idea than you about Triv content. This is why we always are recommending that you spend the extra effort and money to get the best seed ("sod quality"/"gold label"). It's a hard-learned lesson to find out WHY it is worth the extra effort and cost - don't ask me how I learned it.

I know you guys are looking for comfort, which I can't supply - I'm trying to make sure that the experience (frustrating as it is) is learned and the pain doesn't get repeated.
I reached out to SSS after buying my seed there last year and having an overwhelming amount of Triv this year, asked them who does their tests and what protocols they use.

The sent me the test report from New York State Seed Testing Lab in Albany, NY but couldn't comment on testing protocols. I would have to reach out to them for more detail.

I have held off nuking my yard because i really didn't want to look at large brown patches all year but i saw a house down the street did. I'm going to play the Tenacity game a bit and grow some TTTF trays to dig a few patches out and replace, see if i can do this in pieces without a full reno. If it fails, i'm going with a full reno including re-grading and additional soil to fill in some low spots. I have terribly dense clay with poor drainage. It's Triv paradise.

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