Lawn bare spots

[tps]

Hi all, hope someone can help me with this puzzling problem.

I've had pretty much this same situation for a few years now. It's only in this area, the rest of the front and back yard are normal. Last year my wife had a landscaping company look at it. They weren't sure what the problem is, so they shaved a couple inches of grass/dirt from that entire area, from the house to the sidewalk. Then they brought in fresh dirt, graded it and seeded it. This was in late fall. In the spring, the new grass grew in same way, with lots of bare spots in this area. The grass that does grow in that area seems pretty normal to me.

We've always had the lawn sprayed by a professional lawn care company, we switched companies a couple of times and they are all clueless as to what this could be. Any ideas? Thanks.

This area is facing South, gets plenty of sun and we are in Michigan.

[schreibdave]

That looks like either fine fescue or perenial rye grass - both of which grow in clumps. As opposed to kentucky blue grass which spreads via underground rhizomes. If the area is full sun, the fine fescue may not like that. If it's perennial rye grass it may not like your winters. I am in Syracuse NY and about a third of my perennial rye grass would die off each winter. In the spring it would look something like what you have.

So in addition to whatever other issues may exist you may have the wrong type of grass growing in that area and in your climate. If you or your contractor seeded with a northern mix seed of PR, FF and KBG and you weren't diligent about watering it or you seeded at the wrong time of year the kbg may not have sprouted.

[tps]

Dave, thanks for responding.
Since we didn't ask for anything special, I am pretty sure the contractor seeded the "sun & shade" mix, which is the most common around here. I don't know what it contains, guessing not much kbg, if at all. The entire section was seeded in late fall and did not sprout until spring. There was plenty of snow and rain throughout. I didn't have to run the sprinklers at all.

As you can see the grass is fine near the sidewalk and only has bare spots closer to the house. Even though the entire section has identical top soil layer and identical grass. I'm sure there is a clue in that fact, just can't figure out what it is.

Just a thought: The area with the bare spots had a Magnolia tree years ago. Could that have anything to do with it? I was told no and I couldn't find anything on line to suggest otherwise, but you guys are experts here.

[schreibdave]

Does the good section near the sidewalk get more shade than the bad section by the house?

[tps]

Yes, you can see the shadow in the first picture. There are trees beyond the sidewalk.

But the bare spot area doesn't follow the sun/shade pattern and the rest of the lawn (not visible in the picture, to the right) has the same sunlight distribution and no bare spots at all.

[schreibdave]

Beats me. On a dry day take a screwdriver and push it into the ground in a few spots in the good area and in the bad area. Do the same after a heavy rain. Does it require equal force to insert the screwdriver in both areas? Do they go down an equal distance? It could be that you have buried debris, gravel, etc in the bad area.

I don't know how much work you are interested in doing with this but you could have the soil tested in both areas. We can tell you how to do that. It would cost $25 for each sample and the people here would interpret the results for you.

The soil test is always helpful because it will tell you whether you need fertilizer high in phosphorus or potassium and might give you other information about the nature of your soil. Most commercially available fertilizers will have very little phosphorus and potassium. And then we could help you come up with a plan to try to keep what you have and reseed in August.

In most cases successfully getting new grass established involves some specific steps and specific timing. Doing it on the contractor's schedule and letting mother nature do the irrigation at the beginning doesn't usually get very good results.

I'll bet that if you were to follow the steps and timing people here lay out that the grass would come in very nicely. But that's going to involve a bit of work and some expense. Not something everybody is interested in doing. And you wouldn't put seed down until August.

[bpgreen]

And next time you give us a report, make sure to use the correct cover page.

[BIGDADDY13]

My front yard looked like that a few years ago and I finally figured out if was grubs (did a shovel test to see if grubs were present and they were all over). They were devastating that area and not other areas. I ended up doing a treatment with Sevin (the carabyl one) and the next spring it made a full recovery. Not suggesting that is your issue, just that it looks very similar in appearance.

[tps]

I don't know how much work you are interested in doing with this but you could have the soil tested in both areas. We can tell you how to do that. It would cost $25 for each sample and the people here would interpret the results for you.

Yes I would be interested, please let me know details.

[tps]

And next time you give us a report, make sure to use the correct cover page.

Is this directed at me? If so, I don't understand what cover page. Please explain.

[andy10917]

es I would be interested, please let me know details.

Go to the Soils and Compost Forum and read the "sticky" post at the top that describes the process and details of submitting the soil test for interpretation.

[tps]

Bigdaddy, thank you for that. I did have grubs in the past, in other areas of the lawn and they were taken care of. It's entirely possible that the spray contractor didn't do a good job this year, I fired them for other more obvious failings.

[bpgreen]

And next time you give us a report, make sure to use the correct cover page.

Is this directed at me? If so, I don't understand what cover page. Please explain.

Sorry about that. I guess I missed my guess about your user name.

There's an old movie (1999) named office space.

If you haven't seen it and you've ever worked in an office, you should watch it as soon as possible. Actually, even if you've never worked in an office, you should watch it.

There's a recurring gag where the protagonist is chided for using the wrong cover outrage for tdee TPS report.

My post was obviously much funnier in my head than it was in reality.

[schreibdave]

Most of my jokes are funnier to me than to other people!

[MorpheusPA]

Weird side question...do I detect an uphill grade where the grass gets patchy as well? Just a thing I have...but grubs usually won't like the uphill side of a grade as they dislike drier soils. Not that they won't go there, but given the choice, it's downhill all the way.

However, I'm definitely seeing tufty grass without any KBG, and my initial guess is not a disease or grub problem (it's the wrong time of year anyway), but that the initial seeding was watered until the fescue and rye came in, but not until the bluegrass grew in well. Then the care regimen didn't allow the bluegrasses to grow well and they died out, leaving the fescue and rye, which got patchy over time there.

If it's slightly uphill, a bit of dry soil will also help that along, explaining the patchiness there.

That's my hypothesis and I'm stickin' to it. And you'll get my red Swingline stapler when you rip it from my cold, dead hands.

[tps]

Morpheus, thanks for chiming in. Yes, the patchy area is slightly uphill. The grade at the house is maybe a foot higher than the street, which is about 70ft away. So not a great slope.

I'm not exactly a grass connnoiseur. But looking at the "downslope" area where the grass is growing well I don't see any kbg, so I assume none was seeded. Take a look at the picture below.

The lawn was not watered at all. I haven't run the irrigation system this year. We've had good rain the whole time.

[MorpheusPA]

Just a thought. For those of us (guilty; I never water) who wait until the absolute last second or do not irrigate, fescues and ryes will die in the driest areas first after long periods of no water. Even on a one foot rise to run, or slightly more sun, that would be that area first as opposed to the lower part (even a bit of a soil difference can be enough of a change).

There are so many variables that it can be hard to nail down what killed the grass in the past, particularly since the grass now looks really healthy, just like the characteristic fescue clumps one sees in lawns that haven't been re-seeded in ages.

[schreibdave]

I'm not exactly a grass connnoiseur. But looking at the "downslope" area where the grass is growing well I don't see any kbg, so I assume none was seeded. Take a look at the picture below.

KBG takes a lot longer to germinate and get established than fescue or rye. So if you didn't keep the seedlings moist the kbg likely didnt germinate or it did and died off for lack of water. So it may have been in the mix but didn't survive. I would proceed as if there was nothing wrong with your soil and reseed in August with regular irrigation and fertilization per the advice here once you post your logan labs report.