Shady 7a (Utah) - KBG shade tolerant blend or just give in and use fescue?
-
- Posts: 4
- Joined: July 28th, 2020, 1:55 am
- Location: Salt Lake City, UT
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Novice
Shady 7a (Utah) - KBG shade tolerant blend or just give in and use fescue?
Half my backyard is heavily shaded by my house in the morning - by an evergreen tree in early afternoon - and a concrete wall in the late afternoon. It gets probably 3 hours of sunlight per day. Should I try shade tolerant KBG cultivers like Mazama (and mix it with Bewitched and a third?), or should I relent and just try and use a tall fescue here?
Photos of the area around 10 am, mid-July. I have an irrigation system, so watering it is gonna be cake - but I'm not sure about which grass type to try.
Bonus question: this pine tree has exposed roots. I'm going to get screened topsoil delivered and spread it over the top for 1.5"-2". Do I need to mix in compost if I want to seed this September? Or should I just level, use a starter fertilizer, seed, and then add amendments in the spring?
PS - shout out to bpgreen who's the reason I dug through this forum and created an account - even if I'm not ready to dive off the deep end and go native... yet .
[url=https://postimg.cc/YjGbqVcY]
Photos of the area around 10 am, mid-July. I have an irrigation system, so watering it is gonna be cake - but I'm not sure about which grass type to try.
Bonus question: this pine tree has exposed roots. I'm going to get screened topsoil delivered and spread it over the top for 1.5"-2". Do I need to mix in compost if I want to seed this September? Or should I just level, use a starter fertilizer, seed, and then add amendments in the spring?
PS - shout out to bpgreen who's the reason I dug through this forum and created an account - even if I'm not ready to dive off the deep end and go native... yet .
[url=https://postimg.cc/YjGbqVcY]
-
- Posts: 3871
- Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 2:28 am
- Location: Utah (Wasatch Front)
- Grass Type: Western, Streambank, Crested wheatgrass in front (with blue grama added in the heckstrips), sheep fescue in back; strawberry clovetr in both
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
Re: Shady 7a (Utah) - KBG shade tolerant blend or just give in and use fescue?
My back yard is shaded and the kbg does well there. I think it's because even though it's shaded, the sun it does get is somewhat concentrated due to the air being thinner at this elevation.
But I get more than 3 hours of sun, so my shade isn't as bad as yours. Is your irrigation secondary water?
Fine fescues and hard fescues do well in shade, and also require less water and less fertilizer. One drawback is that most are bunch grasses and won't spread to fill in bare spots. The exception it's creeping red fescue, which does spread a little, but not as much as kbg.
I'm sure others who know more about options got heavy shade will chime in.
But I get more than 3 hours of sun, so my shade isn't as bad as yours. Is your irrigation secondary water?
Fine fescues and hard fescues do well in shade, and also require less water and less fertilizer. One drawback is that most are bunch grasses and won't spread to fill in bare spots. The exception it's creeping red fescue, which does spread a little, but not as much as kbg.
I'm sure others who know more about options got heavy shade will chime in.
-
- Posts: 4
- Joined: July 28th, 2020, 1:55 am
- Location: Salt Lake City, UT
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Novice
Re: Shady 7a (Utah) - KBG shade tolerant blend or just give in and use fescue?
Exactly who I was hoping to snare!
Thanks for the confirmation that there's at least an outside chance the KBG might take hold. There's no secondary water in my neighborhood, so I know it's going to cost me a bunch more at first to get it established - and more each summer to keep it going.
I'm in Sandy on the east side, closer to the canyons. I've read some of your comments where you said you would have nuked and renovated from the start, given what you know now. So if you were seeding a completely new lawn, would you recommend aiming for September 1? Or should I be trying to get it started by mid-late August?
Thanks for the confirmation that there's at least an outside chance the KBG might take hold. There's no secondary water in my neighborhood, so I know it's going to cost me a bunch more at first to get it established - and more each summer to keep it going.
I'm in Sandy on the east side, closer to the canyons. I've read some of your comments where you said you would have nuked and renovated from the start, given what you know now. So if you were seeding a completely new lawn, would you recommend aiming for September 1? Or should I be trying to get it started by mid-late August?
-
- Posts: 3871
- Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 2:28 am
- Location: Utah (Wasatch Front)
- Grass Type: Western, Streambank, Crested wheatgrass in front (with blue grama added in the heckstrips), sheep fescue in back; strawberry clovetr in both
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
Re: Shady 7a (Utah) - KBG shade tolerant blend or just give in and use fescue?
It doesn't necessarily need to cost a lot.
Sandy! It's named that for a reason.
We're only about 30 miles away from each other, but our soils are very different.
Utah seems to have two extremes and nothing in between. My soil is heavy clay. Yours is likely mostly sand. I've managed to bring my organic content to 3.4%. But yours is probably less than 1% (typical Utah soil; I've been trying to increase my om for several decades).
I've been on this site almost the beginning, but just did my first soil test. So this may seem hypocritical, but read the post on how to submit a soil test and submit a test to Logan Labs. I was asked to call and ask for the ammonium acetate test. That was optional, but without it, they would have to guess. I suspect (but don't know) that you'll also want to do this.
If you don't have secondary water, I would strongly encourage you to consider native/ naturalized grasses.
For the heavily shaded areas, use covar sheep fescue. Since you don't have secondary water, I'd waiti until September. We start getting precipitation in mid sSeptember, so that will help.
Sandy! It's named that for a reason.
We're only about 30 miles away from each other, but our soils are very different.
Utah seems to have two extremes and nothing in between. My soil is heavy clay. Yours is likely mostly sand. I've managed to bring my organic content to 3.4%. But yours is probably less than 1% (typical Utah soil; I've been trying to increase my om for several decades).
I've been on this site almost the beginning, but just did my first soil test. So this may seem hypocritical, but read the post on how to submit a soil test and submit a test to Logan Labs. I was asked to call and ask for the ammonium acetate test. That was optional, but without it, they would have to guess. I suspect (but don't know) that you'll also want to do this.
If you don't have secondary water, I would strongly encourage you to consider native/ naturalized grasses.
For the heavily shaded areas, use covar sheep fescue. Since you don't have secondary water, I'd waiti until September. We start getting precipitation in mid sSeptember, so that will help.
-
- Posts: 4
- Joined: July 28th, 2020, 1:55 am
- Location: Salt Lake City, UT
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Novice
Re: Shady 7a (Utah) - KBG shade tolerant blend or just give in and use fescue?
I had the USU out for the watercheck as soon as I got the keys. My yard is surprisingly thick clay loam, 8+ ph, and that back shady spot is super compacted.
The specific cultivar recommendations are super appreciated! So thank you.
I think I'm gonna roll the dice with the Midnight/Mazama/Bewitched, learn a lot, and if it turns out poorly, then I'll try grama in the hellstrip and sheep fescue in the back shade next summer. And I'll take a bunch of photos so the next Utah poster on here has some other comparison points to consider
The specific cultivar recommendations are super appreciated! So thank you.
I think I'm gonna roll the dice with the Midnight/Mazama/Bewitched, learn a lot, and if it turns out poorly, then I'll try grama in the hellstrip and sheep fescue in the back shade next summer. And I'll take a bunch of photos so the next Utah poster on here has some other comparison points to consider
-
- Posts: 3871
- Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 2:28 am
- Location: Utah (Wasatch Front)
- Grass Type: Western, Streambank, Crested wheatgrass in front (with blue grama added in the heckstrips), sheep fescue in back; strawberry clovetr in both
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
Re: Shady 7a (Utah) - KBG shade tolerant blend or just give in and use fescue?
I get my blue gamma seeds from southwest seed in Colorado. They list the seeds they sell, but I think you may need to call to get a price. You definitely need to call to place an order. They can also recommend the best cultivar for this area. I think it'll either be Hachita or Alma.
I don't remember where I got my sheep fescue seeds. Southwest has sheep fescue, but doesn't list the cultivar. I don't remember why I picked that one. Southwest would be able to tell you if the cultivar they have is good for here (they are the kind of company that would pass up a sale target than still the wrong thing).
I don't remember where I got my sheep fescue seeds. Southwest has sheep fescue, but doesn't list the cultivar. I don't remember why I picked that one. Southwest would be able to tell you if the cultivar they have is good for here (they are the kind of company that would pass up a sale target than still the wrong thing).
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests