Green Grass in Summer without Spray Painting It

[dull blade]

The only experience I've had with grass is cutting it. With the record breaking heat this summer, it didn't take much to kill my lawn. I will be reseeding in September. The question driving me crazy is what to seed to plant.

I haven't moved but it seems like Southwestern PA is in the transition zone now. Most of the cool season grasses look like brown carpets in the summer. I don't want to go to warm season grasses but I am looking for something that will stay green in the summer.

I have settled on a Turf Type Tall Fescue (TTTF) mixture from Super Seed Store. I will do my best to get it established. I don't want to overseed the bunch type TTTF every year so I was looking to add something. Specifically, a texas/kentucky hybrid bluegrass (HBG). I haven't seen much discussion about HBG in the forums.

So here are my questions to all you green-thumb-grass-growers. Does TTTF need reseeded every year? Would adding HBG prevent the necessity of overseeding? Does anyone have a TTTF/HBG mixture? Can HBG survive a snowy winter? Can y'all help me?

[bpgreen]

It's possible that your grass isn't dead, but dormant.

I haven't seen much about HBG recently, but from what I remember, people who tried ut weren't all that happy with it.

I've never had a lawn with just TTTF, but I don't think you need to overseed every year. You'll likely need to do si periodically, but probably not annually.

[Jackson]

Your yard is dormant. Wait a few weeks. When you see green, hit it with some organic fertilizer.

[MorpheusPA]

Dormancy...well, slow-down. My yard is dormant. Well, 15%. It's established, so some is dormant, mostly it's just stressed. It's pouring rain as we speak, and is expected to rain for the next three hours, with rain tomorrow and pouring rain from Isaias on Tuesday, so this should look great by the weekend.

[dull blade]

Morpheus, you have a beautiful yard. Flowers are wonderful.

I know I want TTTF for my reno because it has a deep root system and will stay green longer in a hot dry summer like we have been having here in Western PA. What I am looking for is something to add to the TTTF mixture that spreads so I don't have to overseed. That's why I was looking at the Texas/Kentucky bluegrass hybrid. I figured the Texas bluegrass part of the hybrid would help it stay green in the summer like the TTTF. And since it's a hybrid bluegrass it would spread, so I wouldn't have to overseed. Am I missing something with this plan? It seems like it is not a widely used mixture and I am trying to figure out why.

[MorpheusPA]

Texas bluegrass is technically an ornamental that I've never heard of being used in a lawn: https://www.wildflower.org/plants/resul ... plant=POAR

I'm going to guess it's a bit rough for lawn use, with wider leaves.

TTTF is a fine choice, as is KBG, and there's no trouble mixing the two. TTTF's dormancy mechanism is poor. It more...slows down. It's extremely drought-resistant, but I'd call drought tolerance rather poor.

Bluegrasses go full speed ahead into droughts and, like mine, turn brown. Their drought resistance is terrible, but they go dormant and are then very tolerant of droughts for long periods. So while drought resistance stinks, drought tolerance is excellent.

Mixing the two means you'll end up with some areas going brown, others not. Or, like my lawn, some of it shocked, some not, when it stops raining if you consistently choose KBG and don't irrigate. That section you see is toward the southwest, blasted by sun, and it hadn't rained in well over two weeks, with rainfall sparse for the two weeks before that.

Right now, as I sit here, it's pouring again and starting to thunder--so I'll sign off very shortly. The shocked green will look fantastic by 10 AM (it already looks very good). The brown stuff won't recover for a while yet, it'll wait to be sure that rainfall has resumed, and that temperatures are dropping of highs in the 90's. That...isn't true just yet!

[andy10917]

I think you'd be wise to reconsider some of your assumptions, and build in the real facts about grass varieties when choosing them.

I highly doubt that your lawn is dead. Now, without a real identification provided by you we can't be sure of anything. But your statement that the only thing you do to the lawn is mow it would indicate that it's likely you're on the same path as the millions of others that are on the path. Their lawns are cut too low, not watered enough, watered improperly (too shallow), and fertilized at the wrong times.

And yet every September, they emerge from serious, prolonged dormancy - they're not dead. Truly dead grass does not recover, any more than a dead dog recovers by supplying better dog food.

Now, about TTTF and KBG with regard to dormancy and death. Yes, TTTF has deeper roots and visually holds it's color longer in Summer. But that''s because KBG has a built-in mechanism to avoid death - dormancy. TTTF will stay green a little longer, but if the drought conditions continue, it dies, where KBG's dormancy will allow it to remain alive (but dormant) significantly longer.

Which leads to the biggest factor in play, for you to consider -- water. It is the obvious solution is is far too often ignored. No matter the depth of the roots, there is no secret reservoir of water from below, unless you have a natural spring in your yard. There are variations in approaches to summer watering. You can provide enough water to keep the lawn in "gentle dormancy" (it sounds like that is what Morph is allowing), or you can water heavily enough to truly keep it green (I do, but I permit the costs because it is my hobby). If you don't do one of those, then Yes you may have some losses that accumulate over several years). It's pretty simple and straightforward, actually -- pay the water department or wind up with a brown lawn for half the year, and recurring reseeding/renovation cycles. You may not like those facts, but they are damned close to certainty. You choose one and live with the results of the choice - there is no free-lunch or secret formula to avoid the consequences.

[MorpheusPA]

Now that mine is established, the lawn is mostly in "You're On Your Own, Buddy" status.

In Pennsylvania, that's usually gentle dormancy, however, as we'll rarely go more than two months without some sort of significant rainfall. It poured this morning--1.8 inches. It's thundering again now. A TS remanant is due through on Tuesday, but even if that misses...so what? We've already had a week's worth of rain.

But July was dry, as was late June. On established bluegrass, that doesn't matter. On young bluegrass? I would have watered. Still, it did rain, enough to maintain most of it as green as you see. Not dormant, just stressed.

And it just stopped thundering and started really storming...

[dull blade]

Oh my. I have a lot to learn. Thank you so much for the information.

I put down 6 mil plastic to kill my 4500 sqft front lawn. It was mostly weeds any way. I am going to have it dethatched, core aerated, top dressed with topsoil, and then seeded. I am getting a soil test from Penn State to see what amendments I need to add in the process. I think I am on the right track for the reno. I just don't know about the seed to plant.

I got an estimate from a landscaper to do the work. He suggested the TTTF. I was looking at the Super Seed Store which recommended a TTTF and KBG mix. Makes sense because it combines a bunch and spreading grass mix. I thought the Texas Bluegrass and Kentucky Bluegrass hybrid would be better than KBG. They had two varieties of the hybrid: Fahrenheit 90 and Bandera. I thought they would withstand the heat better that KBG. I guess no one uses the hybrid.

I thought the TTTF would be better for me because it would take less maintenance that the KBG. Correct me if I am wrong but this is my understanding of your comments.

TTTF is drought resistant.When it is hot and dry, it will be stressed but stay green. I must water it to keep it alive.

KBG is drought tolerant. When it is hot and dry, it will go dormant and turn brown. I must water it to keep it alive.

[bpgreen]

I would suggest getting a logan labs soil test rather than the Penn state one. The folks here can help you far more than the Penn state folks, but the only soil tests they interpret are from Logan labs.

I think you've misunderstood some of the posts.

When kbg goes dormant, it goes dormant. If you don't mind that it's brown for a while, it'll green up again when it gets water.

TTTF will stay green longer than KBG, if it is able to grow long roots (if soll conditions aren't right, TTTF will go dormant sooner than KBG). When TTTF goes dormant, it will stay dormant for a short time, then die.

HBG is an attempt to create a drought tolerant grass that is acceptable as a turf grass. Most of what I've read about it says it has failed at being a good turf grass.

If you want a lawn that will look good with no input, you've set yourself up for failure.

I may have lowest input lawn of anybody on this site. Most of my grasses are native or naturalized. Large sections of my lawn go dormant

[dull blade]

Thank you all for the comments. I have been trying to learn about grass seeds but not all internet sources are reliable. I value the input from the responders on this forum.

I will probably use a TTTF mixture like SS1000 from Super Seed Store. I don't mind the look of a tall grass. Plus, if KBG goes dormant and turns brown, you still have to water it. I would rather have the TTTF which stays green when you water it. I assume both take the same amount of water; at least half an inch per week. I am getting some tuna cans ready for measurement.

bpgreen, I visited a relave in Albuquerque. I thought the green lawns looked out of place. I would prefer natural grasses if I lived there. I don't like to fight mother nature. She always wins.

I have not found much info on HBG. I am curious, why has it failed? (appearance?, poor performance?, hard to establish?)

TIA

[MorpheusPA]

I will probably use a TTTF mixture like SS1000 from Super Seed Store. I don't mind the look of a tall grass. Plus, if KBG goes dormant and turns brown, you still have to water it. I would rather have the TTTF which stays green when you water it. I assume both take the same amount of water; at least half an inch per week. I am getting some tuna cans ready for measurement.

Both will stay green if you water them and both turn brown if you don't. And both have identical water requirements--1 inch per week.

The only difference is that, in case of not watering them, TTTF won't survive for very long without any water. KBG will. Although in practice, both do pretty well in temperate environments with decent rainfall. Mine browns out because that location you see is rather punishing--the lawn hasn't been watered in over 700 days. It's on nature's water only and hadn't seen rain in over 2 weeks.

TTTF is not a naturally tall grass while KBG is naturally short. Both like being mowed at around 3" or more if possible.

[bpgreen]

Thank you for your post, morph. I was trying to come up with something similar, but I thought my responses were too unfriendly.

TTTF can actually require more water than kbg in certain circumstances.

It'll grow longer roots with the right soil conditions, and will stay green longer. But when TTTF fired dormant, soon after, it goes dead.

When kbg goes dormant, it waits. I live in Utah. I rarely water. I can guarentee you that you get more precipitation than I do. My kbg perks up every fall.

I can almost guarantee that you'll have better results with KBG than with TTTF.

I think I understand what you've been doing. You decided on a course of action. You posted here.

When people responded, you cherry picked bits and pieces of what was posted to fit your narrative. You'll plant what you had decided before asking. It'll do poorly. You'll blame us.

Have fun.

Come back when you're ready for advice.

[bpgreen]

As an aside, if you go with your current plan, I think my first comment is incorrect. You'll need to overseed every year.