Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
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KPersico
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Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by KPersico » September 4th, 2020, 4:27 pm

All,

My grass was looking good until mid August when my crabgrass decided to re-emerge.

As we approach Labor Day, what is the best fall product to put down? It’s my understanding that the crabgrass will freeze come first frost. Do I use turf builder now?

I plan to dethacht this weekend. Should I start putting down a particular product?

I’m in Long Island ny.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by MorpheusPA » September 4th, 2020, 7:10 pm

(Loaded question) Why are you dethatching?

Labor Day weekend is the correct time to feed, so you can use any high-nitrogen product you like (high first number, lower second and third numbers). Or an organic if you prefer.

While crabgrass will die a spectacular and entirely satisfying death at first frost, it's also going to spend the time until then seeding out into the lawn for next year. Killing it as soon as you see it is a smart idea. Weed B Gon Crabgrass Killer will take it out quite swiftly, and it's wise to drop a pre-emergent in late spring to confound it next year (it's a warm-weather sprouting weed).

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andy10917
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by andy10917 » September 5th, 2020, 9:42 am

I'm a contrarian on this one. The crabgrass has already seeded for next year. I'm a believer in not fighting battles that are already lost - it's a waste of your time IMHO. If the crabgrass dies in 4 weeks from an herbicide application and the frost would kill it in 6 weeks, your time is best spent applying Nitrogen now for a stronger, healthier Spring lawn, and applying Pre-M for winter weeds and Poa Annua now.

We all have only so much time we can spend on the lawn/garden/landscaping. Break the cycle of chasing the symptoms of battles-lost, and fight crabgrass when the Forsythia bloom in the Spring (with another Pre-M app).

edslawn
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by edslawn » September 5th, 2020, 10:05 am

andy10917 wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 9:42 am
I'm a contrarian on this one. The crabgrass has already seeded for next year. I'm a believer in not fighting battles that are already lost - it's a waste of your time IMHO. If the crabgrass dies in 4 weeks from an herbicide application and the frost would kill it in 6 weeks, your time is best spent applying Nitrogen now for a stronger, healthier Spring lawn, and applying Pre-M for winter weeds and Poa Annua now.

We all have only so much time we can spend on the lawn/garden/landscaping. Break the cycle of chasing the symptoms of battles-lost, and fight crabgrass when the Forsythia bloom in the Spring (with another Pre-M app).
Andy, do you ever get tired of repeating this mantra :banghead: ?

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andy10917
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by andy10917 » September 5th, 2020, 10:31 am

LOL. Actually it's one of the only ones that I don't get tired of repeating - it's just too powerful and delivers a 5X - 10X return on investment of your time and money. And don't think that I don't goof up sometimes and miss doing something, and have to pay the piper. I missed a Pre-M app for Japanese Stiltgrass that invades annually from from the adjoining woods, and wound up having to spend 10 hours and a $100 herbicide instead of an hour getting the Pre-M down. That's 10 hours on an acre+ that could have been spent doing something else.


edslawn
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by edslawn » September 5th, 2020, 10:42 am

andy10917 wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 10:31 am
I missed a Pre-M app for Japanese Stiltgrass that invades annually from from the adjoining woods, and wound up having to spend 10 hours and a $100 herbicide instead of an hour getting the Pre-M down. That's 10 hours on an acre+ that could have been spent doing something else.
I have similar battle with stiltgrass... normally, I am just hitting it with glyphosate and I use prodiamine as a fall preM. Are you doing something different?

KPersico
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by KPersico » September 5th, 2020, 10:42 am

This is my lawn at its best this summer around July and at its worst which happens to be now.

Image

Image

Image

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andy10917
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by andy10917 » September 5th, 2020, 11:00 am

I have similar battle with stiltgrass... normally, I am just hitting it with glyphosate and I use prodiamine as a fall preM. Are you doing something different?
Yes, but I don't want to hijack this thread any more than we already have - I'd have to spank myself. Please open a new thread on Stiltgrass managment/control and I'll be happy to write and link to a regimen that works really, really well.

KPersico
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by KPersico » September 5th, 2020, 11:10 am

andy10917 wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 9:42 am
I'm a contrarian on this one. The crabgrass has already seeded for next year. I'm a believer in not fighting battles that are already lost - it's a waste of your time IMHO. If the crabgrass dies in 4 weeks from an herbicide application and the frost would kill it in 6 weeks, your time is best spent applying Nitrogen now for a stronger, healthier Spring lawn, and applying Pre-M for winter weeds and Poa Annua now.

We all have only so much time we can spend on the lawn/garden/landscaping. Break the cycle of chasing the symptoms of battles-lost, and fight crabgrass when the Forsythia bloom in the Spring (with another Pre-M app).

What do you think based on the photos I sent? Same process?

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andy10917
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by andy10917 » September 5th, 2020, 11:21 am

I can't answer that, given the information you have provided - no grass type, lawn size or experience level provided in your profile. Also, are you a hobbyist lawn person, or do you just want an pretty-nice lawn without extra effort. I'd love to help, but I need a bit of context...

KPersico
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by KPersico » September 5th, 2020, 11:41 am

I apologize and appreciate the help.

Here’s a bit of context-

A little over a quarter of an acre
Kentucky Bluegrass
Beginner level
I’d like grass that my wife can stop saying why doesn’t our grass look like so and sos neighbor grass
I’m willing to put in the effort required to achieve a pretty nice lawn. I was happy up until August when the crabgrass re-emerged. Now, I have plenty of bare spots.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by MorpheusPA » September 5th, 2020, 12:07 pm

I'm a bit of a contrarian on the contrarian. There's still reseeding for the crabgrass to do in September and October, and the stuff is still ugly. Getting rid of it now gets rid of about 35% of next year's problem. :-) Herbicide application would render any developing seed damaged or sterile pretty much instantly.

Of course, use a pre-emergent next year, but even if one is late, get rid of it this year. Labor Day is more than early enough for that.

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andy10917
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Re: Labor Day - Incoming Fall To Do

Post by andy10917 » September 5th, 2020, 12:09 pm

Please put the above profile info into your profile - otherwise it will be lost as you make additional postings...

You could put down the Scott's Turf Builder now, and right when the grass stops growing (as a Winterizer) and you'll do OK. If you want to go to the next level and end the "spousal critical eye", read the "Fall Nitrogen Regimens" thread (it's like 58 pages, but summarized all to the first page).

Because you have KBG, small bare spots will close up if you fertilize and irrigate properly. Or you could try a bit of overseeding still yet - but not if you apply Pre-M.

My main point about the crabgrass is that you lost the battle back in April. Spending your time on it now is somewhat futile - it will only die a couple of weeks before the frost would get it anyway. Note your error for next year and do what you can this Fall to make the Spring lawn healthy and robust - that means a Pre-M now for weeds that germinate soon and become obvious next Spring. It also keeps next Spring's crop of Poa Annua from happening.

What other questions do you have?

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