Dimension Application Rates - Coastal Region Question

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YEM
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Dimension Application Rates - Coastal Region Question

Post by YEM » March 17th, 2021, 10:17 am

The Lesco granular dimension 0.15% productthat I plan to use this year has rates for the North and Transition regions and notes that coastal Connecticut areas may be considered the Transition region. Screenshot of the label included in this post.

So how far inland do we typically consider "coastal" to extend? As the crow flies, I'm about 10 miles inland. I expect answers of "it's not that simple", but curious to hear what you all think.

Then, should I apply at the North Rate or somewhere in between North and Transition?

Thanks!

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Green
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Re: Dimension Application Rates - Coastal Region Question

Post by Green » February 24th, 2023, 8:52 pm

Hope you don't mind me bringing this thread back after 2 years, but I noticed it got no replies back then, plus you replied to a post of mine very recently, and I wanted you to know I saw this same map on these bags a few years ago. We are in the same part of the state, too.

Back when I saw this, I confirmed it elsewhere...for the past 5-7 years, coastal Southwestern CT (and even parts of Cape Cod) are now considered part of the transition zone by the latest definitions in some cases. I would say this is limited to areas that are Zone 7a.

You and I are 6b, of course. Where we are, Zoysia tends to stop growing in October sometime, and is fully straw brown by Thanksgiving or so. I saw some at a cemetery in Waterbury during the first few days of Astronomical Fall last year (third week of Sept.), and it was still very green and dense at that point. Almost no brown tips or purple color. In October, that went dormant at some point. At Thanksgiving, my coastal family's neighbor's Zoysia was still green, on the other hand.

The transition zone is a very wide, diverse place. Zone 7a goes from part of MA to part of AL!

I would say the newly defined (debatable) Northern boundary of the transition zone, as it applies to CT, would be limited to the coastal towns that touch LI Sound, and might span from Greenwich to East Haven, or so, in the longitudinal direction (best guess).

Green
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Re: Dimension Application Rates - Coastal Region Question

Post by Green » February 24th, 2023, 10:53 pm

That said...

According to the bag, I am essentially using the transition zone rate under program 2 on that label you posted (it says 3.82 lbs per thousand, and I'm using 4.0 lbs, and getting good 4-month coverage from it). I'm slightly more inland than you technically, but we are not far from each other at all. This is the rate I've settled upon over time after trying various rates. For my friend who lives literally 5 min away from you or so, and has high crabgrass pressure, I'm actually recommending split apps totaling 4.5 lbs of product over the season...a bit higher than the bag rate.

So, all indications are (from my experience the last 10 Spring seasons) that we should be using the "transition zone" rate on that bag (assuming that label indeed came from the 0.15% concentration Dimension). What is interesting is that that label also shows these rates are effective at some level of early post-emergent control. I don't know how effective this actually is in practice; info I've seen from reliable sources tends to indicate that reliable post-emergent control requires even higher rates, and even then may not be so great with granular.

Earlier, I also mentioned a map. I think the map may have been from a different brand of pre-emergent; I don't remember if it was on the Lesco bags I used. On it, coastal CT was clearly shaded in the same density as the transitional areas. Your bag spells it out in words.

I hope this helps. Have you arrived at a certain effective rate yourself, over the last two years since posting this question?

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Re: Dimension Application Rates - Coastal Region Question

Post by Green » February 25th, 2023, 5:10 am

Here is a direct quote from the wikipedia article "Climate of New England", if I may:

"Coastal Rhode Island and southern Connecticut are the broad transition zone from continental climates to the north, to temperate climates (called subtropical in some climate classifications) to the south. In this region, summers can be quite long and hot, with humid, tropical air masses common between May and September. Convective thundershowers are common in summer."

Btw, the latest Lesco pre-emergent bag label actually shows all of NJ, a bit of NY including all of LI, at least half of CT if not more of it, most of RI, and all of Cape Cod as shaded in...for the same suggested application rate as the "transition zone". This matches my own experience.

TL/DR: Transition zone is moving Northward slowly over time, and your mileage may vary.

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Re: Dimension Application Rates - Coastal Region Question

Post by MorpheusPA » February 25th, 2023, 2:11 pm

"It's not that simple." :-)

I'd call it Transition Zone, from the sounds of it. If I may be blunt, it's gotten to the point where, if there's any doubt that you're Transition Zone, you're Transition Zone. I see no harm in applying at that rate; Dimension is very strongly soil-binding, unlikely to erode on a good lawn, and doesn't have a super-long residual anyway.

I'm becoming bleeding Southern Temperate when February features four days below freezing and five with the windows wide open because this place is hot and I'm trying to get actual work done.


YEM
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Re: Dimension Application Rates - Coastal Region Question

Post by YEM » February 27th, 2023, 2:30 pm

Green wrote:
February 24th, 2023, 10:53 pm

I hope this helps. Have you arrived at a certain effective rate yourself, over the last two years since posting this question?
Thanks for the detailed responses! This is all great.

Anyway, I would say “no”, I don’t have my rates for this particular product dialed in 2 years later :-)

My notes from 2021 aren’t detailed enough for what I actually spread (I noted dates, product, and spreader settings rather than lbs/M which is not super helpful). I have to assume I applied at the transition zone rate.

Last year, I used a Lesco prodiamine product & some math to get the desired rate/coverage timeline. I think I have another bag of that laying around for this year.

Thanks again!

Green
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Re: Dimension Application Rates - Coastal Region Question

Post by Green » February 27th, 2023, 6:25 pm

You're welcome. I knew I couldn't have been the only person who noticed this on the bags a few years ago.

For now, I guess we need to expect our area sometimes still being considered part of the "Northern tier", and sometimes labeled "beginning of transition zone", both used loosely in meterorological type writing at the moment, but neither truly accurately defining our area. But realizing both may apply to us and keeping an eye out for such terms in weather-related writings. Ironically, the coastal areas are a bit milder in the Summer than inland.

Quoted from wikipedia's "Northern tier" definition:
"The Northern Tier is the northernmost part of the contiguous United States, along the border with Canada (including the border on the Great Lakes). It can be defined as the states that border Canada (excluding Alaska), but historians include all of New England in the Northern Tier, as well as states of the Pacific Northwest, because of the common culture they shared for more than a century."

Personally, I think the best definition of our area is that we are on the fringe between the North and transition zone. No doubt, we will be classified as zone 7a in a couple of decades; this has been projected.

Dimension tends to be more soluble in soil than Prodiamine. The more sand the soil texture is, and the more rain or irrigation, the more it can reach, whereas Prodiamine tends to stay bound more readily (but may be a bit more susceptible to breakdown by sunlight). Dimension that gets down to critical turfgrass root levels may thereby induce more root pruning versus Prodiamine.

It's ok, according to studies, to combine a split app of one, followed by a split app of the other. But both belong to the same herbicide "Group" (as do all of our other typical pre-Ms, unfortunately). This of course means rotation to prevent pre-M herbicide resistance is virtually impossible on cool season lawns.

I haven't used a Spring pre-emergent much in the last couple of years. This is due to lower crabgrass pressure than in the past, not wanting to stunt rooting (there was actually a discernible difference in Summer performance), and trying to avoid resistance issues to Group 3 herbicides. But this year, I will be doing a full pre-M program with a twist (hopefully 2 split apps of Dimension with an organic pre-M being tried in between them). Something tells me this year is going to be a bit of a big one for weeds. Stay tuned.

Green
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Re: Dimension Application Rates - Coastal Region Question

Post by Green » March 2nd, 2023, 7:39 pm

One other relevant piece of info for YEM and others: I recently found out that the North Haven SiteOne store has been closed indefinitely starting in 2023.

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