Lime green patches
-
- Posts: 19
- Joined: April 19th, 2021, 7:27 pm
- Location: Eastern PA
- Grass Type: Fescue, KBG
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Lime green patches
Hello all. Fairly new home owner (2 years) trying to make it the best in the neighborhood. For the first year I had an outside company aerate and overseed with tall fescue but was concerned about a few spots in the backyard that peeled up easily (I'm thinking bentgrass, possibly Poa Triv). Last year I decided to overseed myself after reading a lot about contaminated seed from box stores and some lawn companies. My yard is mainly fescue with a little KBR/PRG mixed in. The seed I used was a mix of a few highly regarded TTTF cultivars.
This year, I have a lot of light green patches popping up in the front yard, completely separate from where I have seen issues before. It looks terrible. Is this Poa A or the dreaded Poa Triv? Or something else? I did rake my yard before overseeding last year and am now concerned that I may have stirred up dormant Poa. The pH of my yard (heavy clay) is right on the upper end at 7.2, so I do plan to throw something down to help that, but it has always been a universal dark green color until this year.
This year, I have a lot of light green patches popping up in the front yard, completely separate from where I have seen issues before. It looks terrible. Is this Poa A or the dreaded Poa Triv? Or something else? I did rake my yard before overseeding last year and am now concerned that I may have stirred up dormant Poa. The pH of my yard (heavy clay) is right on the upper end at 7.2, so I do plan to throw something down to help that, but it has always been a universal dark green color until this year.
- andy10917
- Posts: 29741
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Lime green patches
It certainly looks like the dreaded one.
- andy10917
- Posts: 29741
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Lime green patches
Why would that thread help? That's a Poa Annua thread - that's Poa Triv in the pictures.
-
- Posts: 151
- Joined: May 5th, 2009, 7:54 pm
- Location: Easton, PA
- Grass Type: KBG Sideyard fall 2009:Midnight, Moonlight, Bedazzled Front and Backyard Fall 2015: Midnight, Bedazzled, Blueberry
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Lime green patches
I have the same problem this year in a lawn that was a renovation a few years back...my front lawn is much worse as I think the snow plow has been depositing the scrapings in my front yard..need to reinforce my preemergent barrier as I let it slide somewhat last year. Will be following along here as others respond to your thread.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Lime green patches
Howdy, neighbor. I always find P. triv easier to control, personally, so I'm not sure why people dread it so much. P. annua is the one I can't get a handle on. Maybe it just leaves me alone out of professional courtesy?
But yeah, P. triv. Definitely keep a pre-emergent barrier up as much of the year as possible, rotating chemistry if you have to. Be absolutely killer on the stuff. I've found Tenacity to work very well--when using very soft water and adding extra non-ionic surfactant (spreader sticker) to it. Get the cheapest distilled from the grocery store if you have to, if your water is even slightly hard or is chemically softened. Mine is not, it's some of the softest in the nation naturally.
I--uh--enhance it a little bit, but let's leave that alone for now. It's kind of dangerous if you're not careful.
But yeah, P. triv. Definitely keep a pre-emergent barrier up as much of the year as possible, rotating chemistry if you have to. Be absolutely killer on the stuff. I've found Tenacity to work very well--when using very soft water and adding extra non-ionic surfactant (spreader sticker) to it. Get the cheapest distilled from the grocery store if you have to, if your water is even slightly hard or is chemically softened. Mine is not, it's some of the softest in the nation naturally.
I--uh--enhance it a little bit, but let's leave that alone for now. It's kind of dangerous if you're not careful.
- andy10917
- Posts: 29741
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Lime green patches
That's true. I can also light it up with a flashlight, but that doesn't help get rid of it either.Also, won't tenacity light up both annua and triv?
-
- Posts: 488
- Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
- Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
- Grass Type: Mazama KBG
- Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Lime green patches
Morpheus It is very encouraging to me to see what you have to say about trivialis. I am in a big battle with it this year. I inherited a trivialis sod farm. As far as I can tell it was never challenged for more than 50 years and had free range. Interestingly, it doesn't appear to be present in either neighbors yard to my right and left. It had develloped massive mats of rhizomes an inch thick. I sprayed with glyphosphate repeatedly and raked up wheelbarrow loads of it in places. It is trying to make a massive comeback in large areas and a limited comeback in others. One downside I have is hard water. Yesterday I would have had to buy twenty gallons of distilled water (spraying Tenacity). Can dehumidifier water be substitued?
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Lime green patches
I'd say it's worth a shot. I have an interesting tale about a person who used to drink water off the dehumidifier in a submarine because it was cleaner than what came out of the tap.
I can't say I've done the research, but a ton of reports come in with people saying that hard water results in herbicides just not working as well. Whereas mine always seem supercharged compared to theirs, with (as I said) some of the softest water in the nation.
Double up on the non-ionic surfactant as well. 2 Tbsp of Turbo or double normal of any other one you prefer. Don't use dish soap or any other soap or surfactant that's not non-ionic.
Make sure you haven't mowed in at least two days, and don't mow for at least two afterward. Even if you have to break the mowing rules, that's fine in this one instance. Three is better, but that's difficult in spring.
-
- Posts: 19
- Joined: April 19th, 2021, 7:27 pm
- Location: Eastern PA
- Grass Type: Fescue, KBG
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Lime green patches
Maybe it's because I'm new and still learning to battle either, but for Poa A, I would run the pre-emergents through fall when I typically overseed TTTF to prevent the next season's seeds from germinating and hopefully start to slow the cycle. Plus it sounds like there are post-emergents that do help on the Annua.MorpheusPA wrote: ↑April 19th, 2021, 11:05 pmHowdy, neighbor. I always find P. triv easier to control, personally, so I'm not sure why people dread it so much. P. annua is the one I can't get a handle on. Maybe it just leaves me alone out of professional courtesy?
But yeah, P. triv. Definitely keep a pre-emergent barrier up as much of the year as possible, rotating chemistry if you have to. Be absolutely killer on the stuff. I've found Tenacity to work very well--when using very soft water and adding extra non-ionic surfactant (spreader sticker) to it. Get the cheapest distilled from the grocery store if you have to, if your water is even slightly hard or is chemically softened. Mine is not, it's some of the softest in the nation naturally.
I--uh--enhance it a little bit, but let's leave that alone for now. It's kind of dangerous if you're not careful.
For Triv, there seems to be nothing but Glyphosate and i really didn't want to nuke my yard like that.
-
- Posts: 479
- Joined: July 2nd, 2019, 9:22 pm
- Location: South Central PA
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Lime green patches
Interesting tip on water hardness... I have very hard well water that is chemically softened, but I also recently added a creek pump for irrigation and treatment efforts. I'll have to test the creek water ph.
- PSU4ME
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: November 29th, 2016, 9:29 am
- Location: Metrowest MA
- Grass Type: Front: Bewitched/Midnight/Everglade Back: Midnight/Diva/Everest
- Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Lime green patches
Morph, I use RO/DI water in my reef tank. You think that would be a good supercharger? I’m interested in this new twist..... pennies because I’m usually only spot spraying anymore.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Lime green patches
I don't think this is a magic tip, but if the RO/DI water is cheap, sure. If not, seriously, just get the $0.69 per gallon single distilled at the grocery store. Perfect pureness doesn't seem to be necessary (my water sure isn't), just that it's not absolutely clogged with ions and crud.
I don't have my water report that the city sends every couple years, but there's still some calcium. magnesium, and of course fluoride and chlorine compounds in it. I never compared it to distilled because my water seems to work very well and the comparison between people with hard and soft water was just an idle observation.
I don't have my water report that the city sends every couple years, but there's still some calcium. magnesium, and of course fluoride and chlorine compounds in it. I never compared it to distilled because my water seems to work very well and the comparison between people with hard and soft water was just an idle observation.
-
- Posts: 99
- Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
- Location: Rhode Island
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Lime green patches
Morpheus, I feel like I read somewhere a breakdown of how you tackle poa triv. Do you mind sharing a detailed plan or regimen that has been working for you? Or maybe a link? I would greatly appreciate it as the patches of triv in my yard are really scaring me!!
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Lime green patches
This year, I have 2 teeny patches of triv, and 3 of annua that crawled over the line from the neighbors'. There are 300 patches next door (I'm actually underestimating), of which I sprayed about 25 closest to the line.
I spray in April when I see it, and if it's still living (it usually isn't), and again in late May just before summer starts to come on in eastern PA (June can vary and either be a spring month, a summer month, or some of both). It usually won't come back after that, but if I see it again (usually in September), it gets a shot again. And again in October before winter.
Summer? Ignore. Winter, also ignore. It's not particularly active.
Since my sprays tend to be light, I'm still not hitting the per-patch levels for the year. Seriously, Tenacity is powerful stuff. Just a whisper works when you're using enough soap and good water; I made my gallon two years ago and am just running out again. I use it on most tough weeds. I'm still using the first little bottle of Tenacity I bought the month it came out.
As I said, I do add stuff to enhance the Tenacity spray (and other organic herbicides) but...unless you're prepared to follow more stringent rules, don't do that. It increases your risk significantly and you do have to be careful.
I spray in April when I see it, and if it's still living (it usually isn't), and again in late May just before summer starts to come on in eastern PA (June can vary and either be a spring month, a summer month, or some of both). It usually won't come back after that, but if I see it again (usually in September), it gets a shot again. And again in October before winter.
Summer? Ignore. Winter, also ignore. It's not particularly active.
Since my sprays tend to be light, I'm still not hitting the per-patch levels for the year. Seriously, Tenacity is powerful stuff. Just a whisper works when you're using enough soap and good water; I made my gallon two years ago and am just running out again. I use it on most tough weeds. I'm still using the first little bottle of Tenacity I bought the month it came out.
As I said, I do add stuff to enhance the Tenacity spray (and other organic herbicides) but...unless you're prepared to follow more stringent rules, don't do that. It increases your risk significantly and you do have to be careful.
-
- Posts: 488
- Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
- Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
- Grass Type: Mazama KBG
- Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Lime green patches
Morpheus What is Ammonium sulfate calcium?
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Lime green patches
Where did I mention that? I hope I didn't in conjunction with Tenacity and if I did, I was really mistaken!
Ammonium sulfate is a fertilizer. Calcium sulfate is gypsum (or plaster of Paris) and is relatively insoluble. Ferrous ammonium sulfate is a salt metathesis that can happen if you combine ferrous sulfate and ammonium sulfate, but it's not going to happen a lot; you're mostly just going to get a combination of the two in solution. Still, they do amplify each other's effects on your lawn, so that's always nice.
None of them should be combined with Tenacity, though, as they bork the solution pH (well, gypsum really won't, but it'll sit like a big lump at the bottom of the sprayer and clog it, and you don't want that either).
I'm not sure what happens if you spray ammonium sulfate on isolated elemental calcium. I suspect the ammonia gets angry.
Ammonium sulfate is a fertilizer. Calcium sulfate is gypsum (or plaster of Paris) and is relatively insoluble. Ferrous ammonium sulfate is a salt metathesis that can happen if you combine ferrous sulfate and ammonium sulfate, but it's not going to happen a lot; you're mostly just going to get a combination of the two in solution. Still, they do amplify each other's effects on your lawn, so that's always nice.
None of them should be combined with Tenacity, though, as they bork the solution pH (well, gypsum really won't, but it'll sit like a big lump at the bottom of the sprayer and clog it, and you don't want that either).
I'm not sure what happens if you spray ammonium sulfate on isolated elemental calcium. I suspect the ammonia gets angry.
-
- Posts: 488
- Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
- Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
- Grass Type: Mazama KBG
- Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Lime green patches
Morpheus You made a comment on October 22nd, 2011, 10:26 am, about the ammonium sulfate/calcium, and i couldn't figiure out what you meant. But thanks for the clarification. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6103&hilit=Tenacity ... ur+Results
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Lime green patches
Gotcha. The sentence is one of my famous English tangles.
"Ammonium sulfate calcium strips plants, and I use a great deal in my iron mixes. This may be accelerating or enhancing the effect. It has no effect on surrounding bluegrasses."
Ammonium sulfate strips the calcium from plants, a bit of, at least, in use. That can amplify the effect of some herbicides that are blocking some channels. Amusingly, I have to watch my consumption of oxalic acid (beets, sweet potatoes, spinach) as I'm on a calcium channel blocker.
So there's no "ammonium sulfate calcium" compound, it's just a hyphenation or grammar issue, depending on how you want to resolve the error.
"Ammonium sulfate calcium strips plants, and I use a great deal in my iron mixes. This may be accelerating or enhancing the effect. It has no effect on surrounding bluegrasses."
Ammonium sulfate strips the calcium from plants, a bit of, at least, in use. That can amplify the effect of some herbicides that are blocking some channels. Amusingly, I have to watch my consumption of oxalic acid (beets, sweet potatoes, spinach) as I'm on a calcium channel blocker.
So there's no "ammonium sulfate calcium" compound, it's just a hyphenation or grammar issue, depending on how you want to resolve the error.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests