Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
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bolson32
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Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by bolson32 » October 11th, 2021, 11:10 am

Hey All,

I think I know the answer to this...but I wanted to check with you guys. I ordered some Scott's Sun and Shade Mix seed from Amazon because they cut the prices in order to clear it out. I want to do a dormant overseed on about 50k sq feet this winter and the prices seemed okay. I'm less particular about the strains right now as I'm just going to get another few years out before I do a full reno to exactly what I want. They dropped the price to $93 on prime with free returns, so I figured why not. Now that I've seen the label, it seems like I'm getting a skosh less than 20lbs of actual seed since 51% is fertilizer and coating. Which is less of a good deal than 40lbs of seed. The bag rate for overseeding is 16k sq ft per bag...which seems light to me since that's really only a little over a lb or so of seed per 1k sq ft?

Would I be better off returning this and just buying 100lbs of seed from Twin City seed at $3/lb?

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turf_toes
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by turf_toes » October 11th, 2021, 11:40 am

Yes. Yes you would

But having said that, I’d not buy THAT SEED

the other crop seed section should be 0.0

Poa Triv is listed under other crop, not noxious weed.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by MorpheusPA » October 11th, 2021, 3:07 pm

Totes agreed with TT. Return that. Get actual halfway decent seed. You won't regret that. You will regret using what you just bought...

bolson32
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by bolson32 » October 11th, 2021, 8:12 pm

Done, taking it to UPS tomorrow.

I was thinking of going with 100lbs of the TWCA Sunny Mix

https://www.twincityseed.com/drought-to ... tures.html

TWCA Sunny Mix
15% Desert Moon Kentucky Bluegrass
15% Full Moon Kentucky Bluegrass
20% Tirem Kentucky Bluegrass
30% Celestial Creeping Red Fescue
20% Gray HawkPerennial Ryegrass

These strains of KBG appear to be pretty drought tolerant and since I don't have irrigation that's desirable. Would 2lbs/1k sq ft be a decent overseeding?

I think this is $3.85/lb so I'll spend a little more, but the seed should be exponentially better.

Masbustelo
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by Masbustelo » October 12th, 2021, 3:38 am

My two cents is that you need to decide what kind of turf you desire.
Neither creeping red fescue nor the perennial Rye, which are 50% of the blend drought resistant. They will both go dormant and look like they dried up. So to me ,they are 'filler' or an extender in the bluegrass mix.
The blue grass will go dormant in drought as well. If you plant the rye, it may very well end up dominating as time goes on because of alleopathy. The blue handles the drought better. Rye looks great except for mid July and August. Rye seed is cheaper than KBG. Many rye-bluegrass blends are commonly available, but do they play well together? I am taking care of a decades old baseball field which has been replanted and overseeded with everything imaginable and I can't spot any kbg any where in the field.


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andy10917
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by andy10917 » October 12th, 2021, 9:01 am

Rye seed is cheaper than KBG.
I disagree. While PR is cheaper per pound, when you calculate the amount needed to seed 1000 sq ft, KBG is actually cheaper - do the math.

bolson32
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by bolson32 » October 12th, 2021, 10:30 am

Both good points and things I have considered.

Re: Masbustelo and what I want. - Honestly, per my original post I just want to overseed and repair some of the damage I saw from a historic drought year and get another few years out of it before I start to reno into something that I think will work a little better. Most of the lawn is in pretty decent shape but I'm not really interested in a complete teardown right now. I think, eventually I'll be in a TTTF/KBG blend which should withstand lack of watering a lot better. A lot of the lawn right now is already PRG, so I figured mixing in a little wouldn't hurt. I really do want to keep the budget under $400.

Re: Andy and his point...TC Seed sells pure bluegrass at about $6/lb. So if I were to overseed with straight KBG, I could get a 50lb bag for $300. That would be about a lb or a touch more per sq ft. I think I re-measured last night and was at about 48,800sq ft. At $3.85/lb for the Rye/KBG blend I'd spend a touch more, but would also add 50lbs of PRG and CRF to the mix. Since I'm not looking for perfection and just a few year fix, I thought that might be the better way to go.

Can someone explain the alleopathy thing to me in simpler terms? I assumed since PRG was a bunch grass it wouldn't really outcompete a KBG, but I must have that screwed up.

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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by northeastlawn » October 12th, 2021, 11:01 am

I didn't see what kind of sun light the lawn got?

I did see where it said this was only temporary. It takes multiple seasons for a lawn to really grow well, while you may have other plans now, its worth doing it right just incase your stuck with what you put down for a few years.

I really hate FF; it's great in the shade, but it gets burned out in the summer with just a little heat and humidity. It doesn't take foot traffic very well. Unless you get a lot of shade I tried some shade tolerant TTTF that has worked a lot better than FF in a partial shade area I have.

If your luck enough to have full sun and sure your going to kill it off, PR will take better in the spring in a dormant seeding application.

The thing with KBG in this situation is the long sprout and pout period to get established. While it spreads great, the seed heads drive me crazy and it takes almost a month longer to green up compared to my neighbors PR lawns.

I love my KBG in June when its spreading like crazy, I am cursing it right now as an overcast humid September did a total job on it in less than a month. Every year is a new year, but KBG does require some extra effort.

bolson32
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by bolson32 » October 12th, 2021, 2:40 pm

northeastlawn wrote:
October 12th, 2021, 11:01 am
I didn't see what kind of sun light the lawn got?

I did see where it said this was only temporary. It takes multiple seasons for a lawn to really grow well, while you may have other plans now, its worth doing it right just incase your stuck with what you put down for a few years.

I really hate FF; it's great in the shade, but it gets burned out in the summer with just a little heat and humidity. It doesn't take foot traffic very well. Unless you get a lot of shade I tried some shade tolerant TTTF that has worked a lot better than FF in a partial shade area I have.

If your luck enough to have full sun and sure your going to kill it off, PR will take better in the spring in a dormant seeding application.

The thing with KBG in this situation is the long sprout and pout period to get established. While it spreads great, the seed heads drive me crazy and it takes almost a month longer to green up compared to my neighbors PR lawns.

I love my KBG in June when its spreading like crazy, I am cursing it right now as an overcast humid September did a total job on it in less than a month. Every year is a new year, but KBG does require some extra effort.
I don't think I mentioned it actually, but almost all of my lawn is full sun. There's very few to no areas that get less than 6 hours a day.

Also, I did find a few threads that mentioned overseeding KBG into a mostly established PR lawn might not be a great idea. I was hoping to get some spreading/self-repair capabilities but if it's going to take a few years I may be better off with just PRG for the meantime.

I also don't think I'm terribly interested in a monostand, I know it's most of the rage around here but my goal is a mostly weed-free and thick lawn. I don't particularly care what varieties that involves. I just want to give it a chance next spring to crowd out the weeds and have a chance to have a couple of nice seasons until I decided exactly what to do going forward.

Masbustelo
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by Masbustelo » October 12th, 2021, 7:59 pm

$6 a pound is pretty pricey. If it is just for a few years , Ford and Sons can fix you up a sports field KBG, Rye, Fescue blend for under $4.00.

bolson32
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by bolson32 » October 12th, 2021, 8:59 pm

I think those are for their higher end KBG cultivars, Bewitched, Mazama, the Moons, etc.

I got an estimate on a custom blend with 40% Rhambler TTTF and 60% KBG(Tirem and Action). That would be $3.45/lb.

flyin-lowe
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by flyin-lowe » October 14th, 2021, 9:51 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26918

I am not sure if these are available in your area but here is al ink to a thread I started. I ended up using the one in the image marked Houndog brand. It is by DLF Pickseed which has some good stuff I have used in the past. This one came up good and so far is doing great. Especially for a large area I am pleased with it. I overseeded 2 acres with it. Locally it was $78.00 for a 50 lbs bag.

bolson32
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by bolson32 » October 14th, 2021, 10:27 am

flyin-lowe wrote:
October 14th, 2021, 9:51 am
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26918

I am not sure if these are available in your area but here is al ink to a thread I started. I ended up using the one in the image marked Houndog brand. It is by DLF Pickseed which has some good stuff I have used in the past. This one came up good and so far is doing great. Especially for a large area I am pleased with it. I overseeded 2 acres with it. Locally it was $78.00 for a 50 lbs bag.
Damn, where were you 40 minutes ago when I placed my order? :D

That said, I'm going to keep this in mind for next year. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for, decent TTTF seed at a good price, I'll probably try and overseed again in the fall if I can find this stuff locally. Worst case I can get it shipped from Ruralking for $50 for a couple of bags. Thank you, good lookin out!

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by MorpheusPA » October 14th, 2021, 6:38 pm

"Can someone explain the alleopathy thing to me in simpler terms? I assumed since PRG was a bunch grass it wouldn't really outcompete a KBG, but I must have that screwed up."

I think it depends, personally. I started life with a mixed lawn, 10% KBG and theoretically 40% TTTF and 40% PRG. Overall, the KBG should have disappeared. But I fed according to correct instructions (before I became the lawn person you see before you) and heavily, and the bluegrass ended up dominating the lawn and taking out everything else in one mighty wave of green. Three years later, when I renovated to elite KBG, there was nothing left but the bluegrasses. Basic, rough, light green bluegrasses, but bluegrasses.

In lower-fed lawns, it'll probably go the other way. Bluegrasses just don't do well when not fed well. They don't reward poorly-balanced soils. They're just not a happy grass in poor conditions. PRG seems to do better there. So if you have both, but feed badly or have a not-so-hot soil resource balance, the PRG will certainly dominate.

On the third hand, I do seem to be the exception to a number of rules out there. But in this case, I can't imagine it matters much.

bolson32
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Re: Scott's Sun and Shade Mixture

Post by bolson32 » October 15th, 2021, 8:54 pm

Thanks for the insight Morph. I'm gonna stick with my plan, dormant overseed(60% KBG, 40% TTTF), pre-em with tenacity in the spring, and feed on the normal schedule.

It may fail catastrophically, but I'll undoubtedly learn something along the way. Who knows, maybe it'll work out and I'll have a nice thick lawn a year from now.

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