Overseeding

[bombri]

HI all, I have decided to overseed just my back yard with Rye Grass beause that's what already exists and it germinates quickly. Also, I've got a fair amount of shade and trees and until I take out a couple more trees I don't think KBG would be possible. Pictures and soil sample results of my yard can be seen here http://aroundtheyard.com/northern/lawn-reseed-t729.html. Andy advised me to try to the Lesco Double Eagle PR blend of Ryegrass.

How much seed do I need? I was thinking 10 lbs for my 2000 sq foot back yard.

I am wondering what steps I should take to overseed to get the best results. What tools do I rent? Last season I aerated and then mowed as short as my mower would allow and used a spreader to apply the seeds. I used a started fertilizer and watered consistently but I'm hoping for better results than I got last year. What other fertilizers/nutrients should I use (I always see peat moss mentioned)? What tools should I use to scalp the lawn and lay the seeds etc?

I plan to start in a week or so and am a noob when it comes to lawn care - thanks for your help!
Brian

[eriocaulon]

I just overseeded about 2000 sq.ft into part of my KBG lawn almost 2 weeks ago. I couldn't get a general consensus about overseeding rate for PRG but 5-10 lb/1000 sq.ft. was the range from various sources. One study I read said that heavily seeded PRG had less heat tolerance, so sticking to 5lb/1000 sq.ft sounds like a good idea. I used Pizzazz PRG just because I read a lot of good things about it. My neighbor has used Lesco double eagle and when well fertilized, has a nice dark green color.

Preparation is key. I would definitely try to scalp as closely as possible to allow light to your overseed and prolong the need to mow afterwards. Core aeration is a proven technique and is what I did. I also dethatched a little just because my KBG is prone to it. If you are looking to improve you lawn, I would consider slit seeding, not only to expose a lot of soil but to thin out your existing PRG (assuming it is the un-improved variety). I then broadcast seed, rolled, and put down starter fertilizer. My sprinkler system is set to provide 4 superficial waterings a day although I try to survey the area often and adjust the timing to avoid overly wet or too dry conditions. Compared to overseeding KBG, PRG is a pleasure! Very quick results.

[s1mpl3k1d]

Why did you put prg on your existing KBG? Any reasons? Aren't you happy with your KBG?

[eriocaulon]

I LOVE my elite KBG, but this area is in sad shape with poor drainage. It is moderately infested with poa trivialis and poa annua--and has been for quite some time. Because of it's moistness, KBG does not fair well here. I chose PRG hoping it can stand up to some seasonal moisture, will blend well with the rest of my KBG (15k sq.ft in total), and be unaffected by the blanket ethofumesate treatments I will be putting down in a week.

Trust me S1mpl3k1d, you will love your decision to go elite KBG.

[bombri]

Thanks for your imput erio but I still have a couple questions

1. When you say scalp as close as possible, is 1" sufficient? That's the lowest my mower will go.
2. What is rolling and how do I do it?
3. If I rent a slit seeder, do I still need to broadcast seed as well?
4. Other than starter fertilizer would it help to put anything else down on the lawn?

Thanks,
Brian

[GaryCinChicago]

2. What is rolling and how do I do it?

Work, LOL!

Fill it with water (+/- 30 gals) and PUSH!



It's not really that bad. Get's your heart rate going a little that's all.
(Yeah, I say that because I weigh more than the roller, LOL!!)

[eriocaulon]

Bombri,
1" is fine. You will find that getting it to 1" will be a chore.
As far as the slit seeder, many rental units have seeding bins that are not calibrated. You could do some test runs to see if it does seem to put down the correct amount of seed, but failing that, I would just broadcast seed after you verticut. I just put starter fert and a couple of weeks later, Milorganite. Some topdress with compost or peat, but that is optional. My seedlings now at 2 weeks are hairlike and I'm glad that I won't have to mow for another week or more.

The roller is exactly what Gary shows. I have a riding mower and instead just ride around in circles for a while. I did that a day or two after broadcasting to let the seeds settle in a bit.

[Bestlawn]

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know what others have stated. I'm a little concerned about this question "What tools should I use to scalp the lawn and lay the seeds etc?"

Scalping is when you remove too much of the grass at once. The general rule to follow when mowing is never to mow off more than 1/3 of the height of the grass at one time. If you do, then you're scalping it. Sometimes on the forum, we recommend scalping when overseeding, but that's only in certain instances. When a person plans to overseed but beforehand they want to deliberately cause serious damage to the existing grass, then we might suggest scalping it down as low as possible to hopefully remove the crowns (the growing points) if that is possible (some mowers don't go down that close to the ground). Please believe this does cause serious damage and could promote problems with any existing grass that survives the torture, and anytime you are not successful at removing the crown, those grass plants will survive but in a deteriorated condition. They will recover, but like I said there could be problems.

However, if you want to overseed the lawn without causing damage, then mow it down gradually at 3-4 day intervals, never removing more than 1/3 at each mowing.

You can follow the steps to overseeding here.

Another note is I'm not familiar with Ryegrass being any more shade tolerant than KBG.

[MorpheusPA]

2. What is rolling and how do I do it?

Work, LOL!

Fill it with water (+/- 30 gals) and PUSH!

It's not really that bad. Get's your heart rate going a little that's all.
(Yeah, I say that because I weigh more than the roller, LOL!!)

Yeah, we don't know what Bombri's mass and strength are. If, like me, you weigh 145 pounds, that roller with thirty gallons in it outweighs you by more than 120 pounds. I wouldn't be able to budge it. Plus, on an overseeding, you don't want to overcompress the soil or permanently damage the older grasses.

You're trying to get the contact, so even an empty roller is fine if that's what you can handle and it does the job. By no means should you be struggling to the point of hurting yourself.

[andy10917]

If, like me, you weigh 145 pounds, that roller with thirty gallons in it outweighs you by more than 120 pounds.

Even if you're 6' 6" and 250 lbs like me, it's not a ton of fun on a hillside on an August day.

[GaryCinChicago]

By no means should you be struggling to the point of hurting yourself.

But, but ,,, my football coach used to say: "No pain- no gain"!

Speaking of pain - I wonder if Clay & CG went to the masseuse tonight?

[MorpheusPA]

By no means should you be struggling to the point of hurting yourself.

But, but ,,, my football coach used to say: "No pain- no gain"!

Speaking of pain - I wonder if Clay & CG went to the masseuse tonight?

Pain = hurting yourself. Besides, half the football players I know now require knee replacements at my age...40. Whereas I can still sit on my ankles without discomfort and am doing so now.

So no, don't destroy anything doing this. Keep the weight handle-able, the seed will take care of itself.

[GaryCinChicago]

Whereas I can still sit on my ankles without discomfort and am doing so now.

Indian style?????? - God love ya.
After 15 years as a bodyman kneeling on concrete and another 15 years double clutching trucks, that aint happening over here!!
I'm more a cash for clunkers candidate right now.

[bombri]

So here is my plan, please correct me or add things if needed.

1. Slowly mow my lawn down over the next week as short as I can, being careful not to scalp
2. Aerate
3. Apply starter fertilizer
4. Slit seed
5. Broadcast seed (N/S & E/W)
6. Roll with waterlogged roller
7. Maybe cover with peat moss (what does this do and how will it help the results)
8. Water religiously

[bpgreen]

I don't think I'd do both the aeration and slit seeding. The reason you slit seed is to improve the seed-to-soil contact. If you aerate, you'll be exposing a bunch of soil so you'll increase the area the seed can contact. You could still slit seed , but I don't think it's strictly necessary, especially since this is an overseeding and not a reseeding.

[Danbo]

7. Maybe cover with peat moss (what does this do and how will it help the results)

Topdressing with peat moss helps to retain moisture in the soil. (and it adds OM to the soil as well, which is always a good thing). Keeping the seed moist is CRITICAL to germination. Of all the other steps to overseeding, topdressing (in my opinion) is the least effort. After lugging around the slitseeder, raking up the thatch, etc, spreading out some peat moss is the easy part.

I find that using a large landscape rake makes spreading the peat moss easy and even. Don't add too much (about 1/4" or so), or you can smother the existing grass. Water several times a day and ensure that the seed does not dry out.

[rcnaylor]

I have clay and my experience is the roller doesn't need to be near "full" to be nicely effective. Guessing I'd say I probably have it closer to 40% "full" than full.

I suppose like all things yard it depends on your soil, soil grade, other vegetation remaining, etc.

I do highly recommend rolling after overseeding. But, how much weight you need is a little like Goldilocks. You need enough but no reason to go with too much.