Poa Plantation Nightmare and Renovation

[GaryCinChicago]

Nope - the lower lawn is doing the same thing in the shadier areas

(where' the light bulb emoticon?)

Dampening off sounds like the culprit.

"Causes of Disease:
Damping Off disease thrives in cool or cold, dark or cloudy, wet or damp conditions. The disease is airborne, and can spread very quickly from one seed tray to another.

The fungal spores take root in your soil and quickly spreads across the seed tray, jumping to other trays with ease. It is fatal to young seedlings, nipping them off at the soil level. "

It might sound silly at first but maybe with your situation / layout, a spring seeding is best because the sun's angle, the spring breezes and etc make for more favorable conditions in preventing damping off.

(OK, now I need the food for thought emoticon)

[turf_toes]

(where' the light bulb emoticon?)

Wait for it...

(OK, now I need the food for thought emoticon)

Not sure which one that is. We have a few hundred emoticons. But there is no single standard set. If you can point me in the right direction, maybe we could round something up.

[andy10917]

Gary:

"Damping Off" did come to mind. The hint was that they don't turn brown and die off - they just disappear. I don't get a chance to see them Mon-Thurs --- I leave for work before dawn and return after dark.

I guess I'll see what I wind up with at the end of the season, and deal with it in the Spring. I have 35 lbs of "Emblem" in the basement, so I should be OK on reseeding if that's what I decide.

On the plus side, the sunny area is stunning - healthy, growing well, filling in very nicely...

[andy10917]

I changed my mind about posting pictures this week. I think I'm getting over the grieving. I had an arborist get me a price on getting some more light into the trouble areas - something I thought I'd never do. He thinks he can do it without destroying the beautiful mature trees (some are 125 years old).

Here's the "Upper Lawn" - doing well. Actually the color is darker than the pictures show - the cloud cover kept making the camera try to compensate. The real color can be seen by looking down toward the flower bed.



And here's the "Lower Lawn" - actually it's better in the pictures than in reality because the second seeding hasn't faded out yet.

[LawnStriper]

Here's the "Upper Lawn" - doing well. Actually the color is darker than the pictures show - the cloud cover kept making the camera try to compensate. The real color can be seen by looking down toward the flower bed.

that is just too gorgeous man

[jglongisland]

Are those stripes from your reel mower? If so, you've got quite a wide cut. Mine is 18" (craftsman).

[andy10917]

Nah - that's just a 21" rotary mulching mower - it seems to do that naturally, without any effort.

I am still blown away at the lack of weeds. And here's one for Mallory: the aggressive nature of Emblem is closing up bare spots at almost an inch a week! Even an accidental fertilizer burn spot is closing up.

Right now the leaves are still at the point that they can be mulched into the lawn, but that will end in the next week. The taller trees are dropping leaves now, but as you can see the lower trees are still pretty green. That will end soon.

[Drinyth]

Dang. Your lower lawn looks like that and you're considering throwing in the towel? I actually think your lower lawn looks *better* than my backyard currently does. LOL At least in some parts... It looks like it would fill in quite nicely from what's there, no?

[andy10917]

Dang. Your lower lawn looks like that and you're considering throwing in the towel?

Yup. I had a lawn that looked like the below picture (2008 renovation) and I pulled the plug and nuked it because the Poa Triv (which the brighter area near the garden in the lower left quadrant) got out of control.


My "all-PR" lawn (2008 and before) was BETTER than the picture above - so why would I accept less and put all the extra work and money into it?

[Drinyth]

You only pulled the plug on the other lawn due to the Poa infestation though?

I would have guessed that now that the Poa is gone and the KBG is starting to take, that things will only continue to improve, eventually to the point that it least matches if not exceeds the old PR lawn?

I didn't think the lower lawn pictures looked that bad as far as an early renovation goes, is all. In just a few months of good growth period, i would have expected those bare spots to have filled in? Especially with Emblem cultivars?

[andy10917]

That's the goal and the hypothesis - that the aggressive nature of Emblem will spread faster than the shady areas can thin it out. It's an unproven hypothesis that is the core of the experiment.

[Drinyth]

I went back and reread the last couple of pages. I thought you had already decided to pull the plug on it for some reason instead of waiting until Spring to see what happens with it. Hence me wondering why since it's hasn't been that long since you've planted.

[andy10917]

I wouldn't do anything this Fall, unless I developed erosion problems on the slope because I lost too much grass. If that happened, I'd throw something down just to hold the soil. If I lose what I throw down, oh well. I need to hold the slope's soil until I get a hard freeze to hold the soil - that's a worst-case scenario.

[clay&crabgrass]

did a google for hillsides and slopes. come up with stuff like this--
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load ... 19099.html
http://www.amazon.com/Hillside-Landscap ... 0376037784
http://gurneys.com/product.asp?pn=08822 ... 1254863959

the picture on the cover of the book from Amazon was intersting, stone steps with garden areas on either side, could be a real showpiece.

wife have any suggestions?

[andy10917]

We tried the Junipers in a similar situation - No Go. They require much more sun (listed as a Full Sun plant). Sloped shade is the ultimate challenge. If I wind up in Hell, I will be given a yard of K-31 on a dry slope in the shade - with sodic clay soil and a charter membership in the Limestone Quarry Club.

Wife have any suggestions?

The Wife ALWAYS has suggestions. Few are related to my Lawn. She did mumble something about "good - all the soil will be in my gardens soon".

[clay&crabgrass]

http://www.hcs.ohio-state.edu/hcs/TMI/P ... nalis.html

Pachysandra is the solution around here (STL), don't know if it will grow where you are. very hearty stuff, not as bad as Ivy, ya need a chain saw on that. how about some riprap(that's what we use up on the river at the sailing club, paint soom of the stones in your favorite color and spell out "ANDY" , just as well be a named monument after all the work you put into it.
important thing, is your having fun.

[andy10917]

C&C:

Great minds think alike. LOL.

I have pachysandra directly under the Eastern Firs (the cluster in my town is one of the most southern clusters in the US). Pchysandra grows well but doesn't spread quickly around here. I desperately want to grow grass in this borderline area, even if it has to be PR - and I had luck with PR there before.

[clay&crabgrass]

PR? oh,no! hehehehehehe, whatever works, if it's PR, it's good.
did you see the post by jglongisland where he's growing grass in pots to add into the mix? the little sod farm?
why not do something like that? in my backyard, which is all weeds, I'm thinking about introducing some grass, but just from pots, like it was a weed. let nature decides who wins. it's just all experimental?
on the shady side of our house(north side) the ground slopes from the foundation down to yard level maybe 2-3 feet, that space, maybe 4' out from the house has been Lilly of the Valley ever since we moved in 20 yrs. ago, zero maint., never think about it.

[andy10917]

did you see the post by jglongisland where he's growing grass in pots to add into the mix? the little sod farm?

You mean the 100 peat pots that I got on a close-out, for patching "plugs" to start in February? Yelled out "brilliant idea" when I first read his post.

maybe 4' out from the house has been Lilly of the Valley

Scroll the screen back to the last picture I posted, and look under the Eastern Fir that is at the left edge of the picture. Lilly-of-the-Valley. Been there for 23 years.

[andy10917]

Probably the last photo update of the year for my renovation - the leave removal is getting to be a full-time weekend job from now until Thanksgiving.

The "upper lawn" continues to thrive - closing up bare spots, thickening and most definitely darkening.





The "lower lawn" continues to struggle, but is holding its own and has stopped fading out. Oh well, there's always the Spring...