Poa Plantation Nightmare and Renovation

[andy10917]

Knock on wood - I never had a single major lawn disease in 23 years of growing higher-end PR in the same conditions. If KBG can't handle the conditions, there is no Roundup shortage at the Big-box. I'm serious - if KBG looks like hell and is disease-ridden under conditions that PR did well in for 23 years, I will be all over the KBG crowd about a second-rate product. If the only conditions that can grow KBG are clear-cut lots that are devoid of trees, that is pretty damning.

[Abyss]

You can't damn kbg in a situation like that, you'd have to damn your choice of cultivars

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[Seven333]

Can you elaborate more on the issues your PR had? I've always heard that PR cannot tolerate extended heat or drought but your issues were more in the winter. Did you ever water your PR? Your climate is different than mine but probably not that much different. i'd love to plant some PR...doesn't get much darker! Thanks!

[andy10917]

You can't damn kbg in a situation like that, you'd have to damn your choice of cultivars

I'm not damning KBG. I really want this to work, but I'm not clear-cutting the lot to grow some grass. I picked a shade-tolerant cultivar that is aggressive. I believe I am maximizing the odds of success. But I will not be an apologist - if it doesn't work I move on to something else that I know does work from 23 years of experience.

Can you elaborate more on the issues your PR had?

Winter Kill. Nothing else. It would take me until late May to repair the damage and get rid of the new-grass seedling look. Other than that, NO problems. Until I got into the science of all this stuff, I had no idea what Rust, Powdery Mildew or Pythium were.

I've always heard that PR cannot tolerate extended heat or drought but your issues were more in the winter.

You know my yard is shadier, and maybe full-sun people with high heat have problems with drought. I certainly don't have problems with heat. Summers here have numerous days over 90, and a few periods of 95-100 degrees. Winters get down to minus 5 or a little worse. I go out of my way with ALL GRASS to encourage deep rooting, through nutrient mixes and watering.

Did you ever water your PR?

Absolutely. Almost as much as KBG. My experiences with drought come from a two-year period where our town lost one of the wells and we were limited to two hours of watering a week. Try to water an acre in that time. I had almost no dormancy and no grass loss. I attribute it to deep watering - period.

[bpgreen]

"You know my yard is shadier, and maybe full-sun people with high heat have problems with drought."

yup.

Actually, around here, KBG does better in shade than in full sun.

[clay&crabgrass]

Andy,
have you ever talked to an "arboriculturalist", "certified arborist", a high end salesman w/chainsaw?
I know one of these guys(friend of a friend, he knows I can't afford him, so we just talk).
the "arboriculturalist" story is that the "green stuff"(grass) on the ground in a treed setting is ground cover for erosion control and if it's mowed and good color, so much the better. of course the emphasis in the landscape is the trees.
the only other tree stories I have are about removing dead/dying Elms and Sycamores from the yard, to much cussing and crying for this board.

(sometime this winter, how about hijacking the Around the Yard board and take us on a tour of the basement, like to see the tanks and what's in them)

[andy10917]

Yeah, I have one that is going to clear a few branches without hurting the trees. The last time I had him here, he stood and stared at "Bertha" the giant Norway Maple and said "if there is a picture of the perfect Maple in the dictionary, it should be this tree".

[andy10917]

Well, of course it was too good to be true. I got the renovation down to the final 2.25" height for the Winter, and the light was just right and then I saw...

Brighter green speckled here and there in the dark new grass. Hands and knees time.

Poa Annua. Three leave young plants all over it. Some bigger. They stand out like spotlights.


The perfect(ly terrible) Poa Annua Picture

[clay&crabgrass]

we're up to page 11 here, please refresh my memory, did you ever notice the Poa Annua when it was a PR yard?
you've probably already read this-
http://www.hort.iastate.edu/directory/p ... rounds.pdf
"The gene that protects plants from Roundup does exist in nature and it is
possible that over the years Roundup resistant Poa annua could be found. As
mentioned earlier, the genetic diversity of Poa annua seems to always give it the
edge over almost anything we use to control it."

read it yourself, not some Halloween gag I just cooked up.

[andy10917]

Yeah - I had my share of Poa Annua. Its just that the darker the lawn, the more it stands out.

[LawnStriper]

i can't tell you how much i feel for you. in order for any more unwanted seeds germinating in my reno, i applied Pendimethalin in the form of Scott's Halts crabgrass preventer last week to stop anymore Poa T (probably from gusty winds blowing neighbors Poa seeds onto mine). Let us know how you plan to attack this infestation.

[andy10917]

Poa Triv does not spread from your neighbor's place to your's by seeds, unless he is growing his lawn 3 ft high. Poa Triv spreads via stolons unless you got some in some seed you bought.

[LawnStriper]

ouch! either way Poa T and A are both truly gross

[andy10917]

Let us know how you plan to attack this infestation.

Well, Prograss is out as an option - aggressive cultivars do very poorly with Ethofumesate. Sounds like Roundup and hand-pulling to me.

[LawnStriper]

Well, of course it was too good to be true. I got the renovation down to the final 2.25" height for the Winter, and the light was just right and then I saw...

Brighter green speckled here and there in the dark new grass. Hands and knees time.

Poa Annua. Three leave young plants all over it. Some bigger. They stand out like spotlights.


The perfect(ly terrible) Poa Annua Picture

i recognize this on my renovation, thank you for the illustrative picture, came out mainly on the super sunny part of the Emblem monostand. i think i will do just like you, some roundup when the time is right and hand pulling whenever my back wants a workout.

any more pics of the monstand btw? cant seem to get enough.

[andy10917]

Nope - no more pictures this year. I cut it shorter and mulched in a ton of leaves. It lost a bit of its dark color when the real freezes started. I tucked it in for the winter and said "see you in March" (or maybe early April - "Emblem" is a notorious late-riser).

[turf_toes]

Nope - no more pictures this year. I cut it shorter and mulched in a ton of leaves. It lost a bit of its dark color when the real freezes started. I tucked it in for the winter and said "see you in March" (or maybe early April - "Emblem" is a notorious late-riser).

My guess is more like late April. My backyard monostand of Midnight II doesn't normally come completely out of dormancy until mid to late april. The front yard blend is usually a few weeks ahead (early April).

The one thing I'll give the P Rye lawns in my area is that they're all up and green much earlier than my KBG. I'm ok with that though. Seeing how much better my KBG looks in May makes the wait worthwhile.

[andy10917]

Yeah, you're probably right. I've got a big early Spring project to convert a borderline area from grass into a 1000 sq ft fern garden, though - so I shouldn't be hurting for projects.

[LawnStriper]

Wow, after 5 years, I still recall this post and Emblem. Do they still sell Emblem because I just checked on Williams Lawn Seed sight and it is not listed even though I purchased it from them 5 years ago.

Andy how has ur lawn been doing...

[andy10917]

Please let this thread die. I hate thinking about that one.