Grass ID: Fescue? Ryegrass? Something else?

[NiciPicki]

I renovated my yard this fall to elite KBG. However, in some of the more spare areas, I have an unknown grass popping up. I've tried every turf/weed ID system I can find, and I just can't quite settle on a positive ID. My main suspect is perennial ryegrass, but I'm not very confident on it.





I can see now that it would have helped if I'd put a ruler in the photo. However, they're small plants. Very thin-bladed. And I know the photos don't give a great description of the normal characteristics you'd want for an ID, but here those are:
- Short membranous ligule (doesn't stick up above collar)
- No auricles to speak of (definitely not clasping, anyway)
- None of the plants have gotten large enough for me to ID any rhizomes or stolons
- Posted the photos because of the growth habit and the purple in the center - seems like it should be distinctive of "something"

I keep doing this thing where I pull out some KBG thinking it's "not-KBG" and then IDing it as, in fact, being KBG.... but this one is different. That purple in the middle and that growth habit.. nah. The reason I'm asking about fescue or rye is because my old lawn was a northern mix. I know the purple sheath can mean a couple different grasses, which is another reason for my confusion. Hopefully the photo of the growth habit ("wheel"-shaped, horizontal from center then turning vertical) will help.

My hope is that folks who are familiar with the other types of cool-season grasses can take a look at this and be like, "That's ________, dumdum." You can even call me a dumdum, too. I don't mind.

[sc4dr]

That's POA ANNUA

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[NiciPicki]

[NiciPicki]

[sc4dr]

Does it feel soft and rubbery? It's not a big deal, just pull it out.

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[NiciPicki]

Does it feel soft and rubbery? It's not a big deal, just pull it out.

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Just being dramatic!

I'm not sure "soft and rubbery" would be the words I'd use to describe it. Tenacity doesn't seem to be turning it white, either.

[NiciPicki]

Ah, found the main reason I'd ruled out Poa A: the ligule. The photos I've seen of Poa A ligules show a sharp point. This one definitely does not have that.

[sc4dr]

Well, I have to tell you. A lot of young POA ANNUA has a very small ligule. It looks like POA to me, but I can't say for sure. Pull one out. If it comes out easily in one clump its most likely ANNUA.

Btw. My phone keeps capping the POA ANNUA, not me lol!

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[sc4dr]

I was looking at it again, and you might be right. It looks like the leaves have veins. POA ANNUA does not. Could be fescue

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[NiciPicki]

They do have veins, yes. I can't recall now why I had ruled out fescue. There may not have been a good reason for my leaning toward rye over fescue. In fact, the more I look at fescue ID traits, the more I lean toward it.

Then again, that happens every time I try to ID this stuff.

[tiemco]

It's not typical poa annua (there are hundreds of ecotypes) as it has the ridged blades, and it's not tall fescue, has a central midrib. Not sure what it is, but I would probably get rid of it.

[slash8118]

It looks like fescue to me. Are the leaves rough? The vernation also looks rolled? both would indicate fescue

Edit: as tiemco states, the midrib would point away from fescue though. isn't ID'ing grass fun!

[NiciPicki]

It's not typical poa annua (there are hundreds of ecotypes) as it has the ridged blades, and it's not tall fescue, has a central midrib. Not sure what it is, but I would probably get rid of it.

I definitely want to get rid of it, but it's not a "Tenacity" grass and it seems to be scattered randomly around the yard. My hope is that, with a positive ID, I can figure out the best approach. I'm not sure how feasible the RU+paintbrush method will be in getting it all. I also don't know if there's even an alternative method available. It's likely a "Corsair" grass, but Corsair doesn't exist anymore. Still, knowledge is power.

It looks like fescue to me. Are the leaves rough? The vernation also looks rolled? both would indicate fescue

Edit: as tiemco states, the midrib would point away from fescue though. isn't ID'ing grass fun!

Folded, actually. And yes, just a joy! Hah!

Well, at least I now have confirmation that I'm not a dumdum for not being able to identify it....

[sc4dr]

Yea the mid rib got me too. The problem like tiemco stated, is that there are a ton of variations of POA. Some are annual, and some are perennial as well.

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[sc4dr]

And you're not a dum dum! It's tough trying to Id all the possible variations of so many types of grass and weeds!

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[NiciPicki]

And you're not a dum dum! It's tough trying to Id all the possible variations of so many types of grass and weeds!

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Haha, thank you! It just looks like it should be so characteristic of.... something.... with the red sheath and the somewhat prostrate growth. But apparently it is just characteristic of "random PITA unidentifiable weedy grass."

[slash8118]

And you're not a dum dum! It's tough trying to Id all the possible variations of so many types of grass and weeds!

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Haha, thank you! It just looks like it should be so characteristic of.... something.... with the red sheath and the somewhat prostrate growth. But apparently it is just characteristic of "random PITA unidentifiable weedy grass."

If you get really frustrated and are not able to identify it AND you just cannot live without knowing what it is you can always enlist the help of a university for a small fee if you send in a sample plant or sometimes free if they are able to identify it by pictures...trust me..im in the same boat as you...actually much worse if you have seen what i am dealing with! yours at least looks kind of tame...

[xapabwa]

Is the back of the blade shiny? I can't make the pictures bigger on the computer I'm currently on. All I can see is its sort of spidery growth. This looks a lot like I had come up in a couple of places when I overseeded last year. Being a total newbie to all things lawn, I didn't have a clue about how to ID stuff. I used 3 TTTF cultivars and figured that it was the Firecracker LS that was different - I thought it was lateral spread.

I've not sent mine off anywhere, but the general concensus from my description posted here along with pics, was that it was poa trivialis.

I'd pull it immediately and then keep your eye out for anything else that looks a bit different growing in your new lawn.

[NiciPicki]

The main reason I had leaned toward ryegrass initially was that the back of the blade was distinctly shiny. I had noticed that when I was in my living room looking at it under a magnifying glass. However, when I went back out to the yard to look at it compared to the other yard grass, I'm not convinced it's much shinier than anything else. That led to more confusion, and ultimately this post.

I don't necessarily "have to" know what it is, but I do want to know how to get rid of it, so it seems like it's probably necessary to ID first. I think my biggest paranoia was that I was being a total crackhead and pulling perfectly good KBG. I know that's not what's going on since KBG doesn't have a purple sheath like that or have that growth pattern, but reno paranoia is a powerful thing.

I think my plan going forward is to pull as much of the stuff as I can when I can actually find it. It doesn't look different enough from my current grass for it to stick out unless it's in a bare patch, since the reno is still all new and light green. I'm going to let one plant grow bigger so I can try to get a positive ID. The plants in the photos are really quite small, making it very difficult to see everything clearly even under a magnifying glass.

[xapabwa]

I remember being excited when I first say my mystery grass thinking that it was the lateral spread fescue just doing its thing.

Might I suggest that you dig up the plant you want to observe and stick it in a pot where it can be totally contained. If it is something nasty like poa t, you certainly don't want it spreading out. My clumps looked like they were just that -clumps. However, when I started combing through the grass surrounding the clumps, I was occasionally pulling up a stray stolon with a little green on the end that blended in in very well with the surrounding TTTF.