renovation advise

Bermuda, St. Augustine, Zoysia, Centipede, Bahia, Paspalum, etc
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Gretta
Posts: 22
Joined: July 28th, 2013, 12:38 pm
Location: Phoenix AZ
Grass Type: Tifway 419
Lawn Size: < 1000
Level: Some Experience

renovation advise

Post by Gretta » May 9th, 2023, 6:32 pm

Hi from Phoenix!
Short story really long. Skip this if it's too much to read! I hired the people who put in my sod (sloppily) to level all the bumps. Big mistake and it wasn’t cheap. They brought in a crazy 3 or 4 tons of "sod mix" fo only 600 feet. I expressed concern but was blown off. He didn't even have a leveling rake to work it in. The guy didn't speak English to I couldn't ask him what he was going to do. He basically spread a couple inches on top it and smoothed it out. He then lightly watered and called it good. I watered more heavily when he left and it pooled everywhere including places that were pretty level already. It made everything much worse and basically ruined the lawn. It might be because of the mix they used or the huge amount, but when you walk on it it just collapses under your feet. There is now a whole bunch of material that needs to be taken out. It sucks because except for the small shaded parts it was coming in beautifully thanks to you guys.

I complained and the supervisor agreed it needed to be resodded and was told they would fix it. I want to go from tifway 419 to St. Augustine (which I wanted in the first place) He said I would only have to pay the difference in the price of the two which he said was a dollar more per square foot. That's ridiculous but whatever if I can get a nice level lawn. It's really .25 or .30 cents. When you call the sod farms.

Here is what they propose in the contract:
APPROX. 600 SQ. FT OF GRASS: SOD CUT OUT 2-3 INCHES DEEP - LIGHTLY LEVEL WITH
SOD MIX - INSTALL APPROX. 600 SQ. FT. OF SAINT AUGUSTINE SOD WITH STARTER
FERTILIZER - ROLL GRASS OUT WITH SOD ROLLER - RESET TIMER FOR SOD ONCE ROOTS
HAVE ESTABLISHED ( APPROX. 4-6 WEEKS AFTER INSTALL )

BTW they didn't roll at all the first time but I know some people suggest that you don't roll so I didn't say anything.

I know they are not going to level correctly again. "Lightly level" is going to leave me with the same bumpy lawn. So I want to ask them to give me some time in between taking out the old sod and putting in new so I can level properly. I have 5 weeks before they will even start so I have time to kill most of the bermuda I think. Plus in my experience from my last house the St. Augustine will win over the bermuda in the end.

I want to do it right so I would be grateful for advice. Here is what I've found from Dchall_San_Antonio

“You need to prep the area. Spray everything with RoundUp and start watering. Water as if you had just planted new seed (3x per day for 5 minutes just to moisten the surface but not enough to make it soggy). Water like that for a week and spray the RU again to kill off all the new weed seedlings that sprouted. Continue watering for another week because some weeds take two weeks to germinate. Spot spray the RoundUp again to take care of those weeds. After this you can put your grass seed out without worry of starting a field of weeds along with your new grass. Rake off all the dead grass to get down to the soil surface.
Level the surface as best you can. Ideally you did not rototill so the soil has a relatively ideal structure. Level with sand or topsoil ONLY to fill the low spots. Scrape off any high spots. Water the loose soil on top to settle it and see if there are still low spots. Let the new soil/sand dry and walk on it to press it down firmly. Check again for low spots. These low and high spots will be the bane of your mowing existence if you don't get rid of them at the start.”

I know this is for seed instead of sod so I hope it isn't very different.

QUESTIONS:
1. I want a few days to level myself after they cut out the burmuda. According to the advise above I only need to fill in the low spots which is all I wanted done in the first place dammit. I can shovel some of what is lying on top of my grass, put it aside and use that when I level. Should I then just tell them to not bother to bring in sod mix to "lightly level" before they lay it or would it actually help. See the pic below for the sod mix.

2.1.I'm afraid they will cause deep footprints when the lay the sod. Some youtubers advise rolling the soil or using a tamper during the leveling process to help with that. Is that ok to do or will it make it too compact? I've put down shampoo several times and to my surprise the screw driver actually goes in 5 inches or so in most places.

3. Should I let them put down starter fertilizer considering the fact that I did that at the beginning of April and the fact that it’s probably already fertilized well by the sod farm? According to soil tests I lack phosphorus and zinc which I’ve been addressing over a couple of years.

4. Attached is a pic of what they used to "level" and I think it's probably what they will put down under the sod. Is it ok or not?

They guarantee for and year and might not go for my changes. They're going to set the sprinkler for stupid watering (8 minutes twice a day). This is after the sod has knitted. I will change the timer according to my tuna can test.

I'm going to end up doing a ton of work myself plus be out a bunch of money. But I would have the St. Augustine I should have insisted on in the first place. I'm definitely asking for a couple of days at least to level myself. Honestly I should make them level it correctly! If they don't agree to my conditions and make sure it's right I'm thinking about declining their offer and taking my chances with small claims court. Your advise will factor into my stipulations. Plus it says that if any more costs arise I would be responsible. Mind you this is a very reputable company. Sorry so long.


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Dchall_San_Antonio
Posts: 3343
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 1:53 am
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Grass Type: St Augustine
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Advanced

Re: renovation advise

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » June 12th, 2023, 5:30 pm

When you say, "Very reputable," what does that mean? Some people thing Tru-Green is very reputable. While they can be reputable in certain locations, others are not. I know this because I worked with a guy in a different industry who was a salesman for Tru-Green. I asked him some questions, and he admitted that he knew nothing about lawns. He worked from an illustrated training manual provided by the company. When he was on site he had the same recommendations for everyone. And when the chemicals went onto the truck, it was the same spray for everyone that day.

Having said that, 90% of the important part of lawn care is done by the homeowner. That means watering and mowing. When people think Tru-Green and other lawn care companies are doing a good job, I believe they have an excellent program for watering and mowing, which makes the lawn care company look good. So would I trust someone like that to provide other services, oh heck no.

As far as what they did to level the lawn, I would not call that best practices. Now I have a couple questions (and I realize you may already be in the middle of this project). 1) Did they do all this work at the same time? Meaning lay the sod and level it? Because the sod needs to knit to the soil before you can level it. Also you said they installed bermuda. For the record, bermuda is much easier to level than St Augustine. 2) where was your other house where you had success with St Augustine? Was it in the Phoenix or Southern Arizona desert area? I ask because I have a friend who had a nice St Augustine lawn IN THE SHADE in Gilbert, AZ. In the front (very little shade) he seeded a "hybrid" bermuda which was also very nice. After many years of bermuda success he has now xeriscaped the front yard with AZ desert natives. I guess my point is that bermuda might be the better choice if you have a full Sun situation. If so you might want the contractor to just fix the mess.
Leveling can be initiated before the sod goes down. That means sand and watering repeated until there are no low spots. Then allow the sod to knit in before evaluating whether the level is good enough for you. If not, then hire someone to do the leveling. Before you hire them, be sure they have a good plan to include light sanding, dragging, watering, sanding, dragging, watering, etc. until it is perfect. That should be no more than three sandings.

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