Backyard experiment

Bermuda, St. Augustine, Zoysia, Centipede, Bahia, Paspalum, etc
Drgiles
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Backyard experiment

Post by Drgiles » May 3rd, 2016, 2:33 pm

So my backyard was pretty much fully taken over by winter weeds and tons of poa. Around February, when I got my letter from the HOA, I sprayed half of it with image kills nutsedge.
Image

On the left side near the tree lines is some kind of fescue, in the middle is poa and some mix of other weeds, and you can see where some of the poa died (and some other weeds didn't) on the right.

Image

Here's a better view of the side I hit with image.

I'm starting to see some Bermuda growing in the areas where the image really killed everything so I'm going to see if I can coax it into growing and spreading and save myself from having to do a full reno.

And for fun, I figured I'd document it here.

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Southernguy311
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Southernguy311 » May 3rd, 2016, 3:47 pm

Looks like you have some moss also. I recommend aerating asap. It will of course benefit the Bermuda also.

Bermuda should not have any issue spreading through the entire yard by the end of next year. Good luck.

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Drgiles
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Drgiles » May 3rd, 2016, 5:27 pm

I definitely have some moss on the side of the house. I think I have drainage issues there so I don't know if that can be fixed by anything besides getting it regraded.

How does aerating help with miss?

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Drgiles
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Drgiles » May 17th, 2016, 12:43 pm

Two weeks later, the poa is dying and I hit some areas with weed b gon to give the Bermuda room to spread. Looks worse but all that died off were weeds. In the back and on the right side you can see where the patches of Bermuda are growing and filling in.


Image

Image

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Tony alony
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Tony alony » May 17th, 2016, 6:10 pm

Drgiles, Whoa, look at all those leaves next to your property! Do you mulch them into the lawn?
I'm not a Bermuda grower, so I'm just curious. Do any Bermuda growers mulch leaves?


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Redtenchu
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Redtenchu » May 17th, 2016, 6:29 pm

Tony alony wrote: I'm not a Bermuda grower, so I'm just curious. Do any Bermuda growers mulch leaves?


I collect them from Neighbors and mulch them into my lawn.

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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Tony alony » May 17th, 2016, 6:37 pm

Red, all I can say is that you're the first person I've ever read about that mulches Leaves to organically feed their Bermuda. Congrats !! Well,well; an organically fed Bermuda lawn!
You are more than somewhat unique..

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Redtenchu
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Redtenchu » May 17th, 2016, 6:50 pm

Tony alony wrote:Red, all I can say is that you're the first person I've ever read about that mulches Leaves to organically feed their Bermuda. Congrats !! Well,well; an organically fed Bermuda lawn!
You are more than somewhat unique..


I'm not sure if it feeds the grass, but I've read it helps with the soil structure. I use Milo and soy bean meal to feed my Bermuda organically.

Drgiles
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Drgiles » May 17th, 2016, 8:55 pm

This is only my third year in this property and I've only been through two autumns at this point. The first year I neglected the leaves for a long time because I didn't want to take up all those leaves and I didn't have a blower. I got a blower as an early Christmas gift and proceeded to blow and rake a lot of heavy wet leaves. I mostly used them to expand the mulch island around some trees just out of the left frame. This was before I found this site and really before I knew anything about taking care of Bermuda. I probably did a fair amount of damage by leaving the leaves out for so long which is part of why my backyard looks so awful.

Last fall I mulched the leaves. It's really just a lot easier than blowing or raking, especially since my blower is battery powered and the battery only last long enough to clear about 50-100 sqft at a time and I've got probably 5k in the back (I've never actually measured, but I've used some websites).

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Tony alony
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Tony alony » May 17th, 2016, 9:09 pm

Drgiles, keep doing the same practices. You'll save money, when it comes to enhancing your soil by using what is normally a free gift from Mother Nature. Mulch leaves, add amendments; you know the drill. It is so obvious to some of us lawn nuts.

Spammage
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Spammage » May 17th, 2016, 10:42 pm

I used to hate Fall for the extra cleanup. Now I start to get excited when I see the first leaves drop, until I realise that it also means my lawn is done for the year... :sorry:

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Drgiles
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Drgiles » May 18th, 2016, 9:57 am

If my yard weren't so big it my budget weren't so small I'd consider some more organic feelings. It gets expensive trying to feed 10k sqft of Bermuda monthly with milo. I am experimenting with skipping the preventative applications of bug b gone this year. I have a pest control service the treats around the outside of my house and will handle fire ants for me, so hopefully that works out.

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hambone79
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by hambone79 » May 21st, 2016, 2:18 pm

Drgiles wrote:If my yard weren't so big it my budget weren't so small I'd consider some more organic feelings. It gets expensive trying to feed 10k sqft of Bermuda monthly with milo. I am experimenting with skipping the preventative applications of bug b gone this year. I have a pest control service the treats around the outside of my house and will handle fire ants for me, so hopefully that works out.

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Here in Memphis Milorganite is around $12.00/bag. Slow-release synthetic fertilizer of any quality is greater than $40.00/bag. With Milorganite you generally need about 3-4 bags to equal the average analysis of a slow-release synthetic. My math has me paying about the same for either product, the only difference being the added labor of putting out the extra Milo to apply for desired results. I recommend using a combination of slow-release and Milo, trying to apply about 1/4 of my N with synthetic and the rest Milorganite. Ideally, I like to supplement foliarly spraying some N and micros also. By doing so, it allows me to insure I am getting a portion of nutrients directly into the plant and not having to rely on soil chemistry to do ALL of the guess work. The more control I want over the turf, the more I slide my percentage of feeding into my weekly foliar feeding. Of course, this is pretty advanced level mgmt and you need to know what your doing and how to apply your nutrients correctly before you attempt foliar feeding or your results will probably be lacking or you could do serious damage.

Drgiles
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Drgiles » May 21st, 2016, 3:39 pm

I can get a bag of Scott's southern turf builder for about $30 at Costco or SAMs club. It's supposed to cover 12k, but I use the whole bag over what I think is about 10k. Mil organize at bag rate covers 2.5k so I would need 4 bags and I've seen it a little over $12 so I'd be looking at closer to $50. That's a $20 difference every time I fertilize.

I have considered doing milo just for the front part of the yard, but I haven't pulled the trigger on it yet.

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dfw_pilot
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Fertilizer Numbers

Post by dfw_pilot » May 21st, 2016, 7:55 pm

Drgiles wrote:It's supposed to cover 12k, but I use the whole bag over what I think is about 10k.
To the good doctor, make sure you never read the coverage rates on a bag of fertilizer because they are just meaningless marketing numbers. Always, always do your own math to see what it covers. "Covers 12,000 feet" is meaningless, because it doesn't define at what rate. If you want 1 lb of N per K, your coverage will be different than someone who wants .5 lbs of N per K. Define the rate, and the coverage calculation is easy. There are some different formulae at the bottom of the BestLawn Bermuda Guide, but here are a couple examples of what I mean and some food for thought.

Take 100 ÷ N on the bag to get how many pounds of product you should spread to get 1 lb of Nitrogen per thousand on your grass. The Scott's Southern is 32-0-10, so 100 ÷ 32 is basically ~ 3 lbs of Scott's product in that bag that needs to be spread per thousand to get 1 lb of Nitrogen per K on your lawn. If the bag is 37.5 lbs (3.125 x 12,000 square feet) then 12,000 coverage at 1 lb of N per K is correct. If the bag weighs less than 37.5 lbs, the coverage is less than 1 lb of N per K. Brands like Scotts are always conservative on lbs per K because they don't want people burning their grass.

Another good way to compare apples to apples on prices for Nitrogen in fertilizer is to see how much N is really in the bag. 32-0-10 is 32% N. A 16 lb bag of 32-0-10 at HomeDepot is $15.50. 32% of 16 lbs is 5.12 lbs of Nitrogen in the bag, or $3.03 per pound of N (15.50 ÷ 5.12). Yikes, that's a lot of money for Nitrogen. Apples to apples with Lesco 39-0-0 slow release looks like this: 50 lb bag for $40. 19.5 lbs of N in that bag means the price per pound of N is $2.05 ($40 ÷ 19.5), a whole dollar per pound less, and it's slower release!

Which brings me to this:
hambone79 wrote:Here in Memphis Milorganite is around $12.00/bag. Slow-release synthetic fertilizer of any quality is greater than $40.00/bag. With Milorganite you generally need about 3-4 bags to equal the average analysis of a slow-release synthetic. My math has me paying about the same for either product, the only difference being the added labor of putting out the extra Milo to apply for desired results.
I'm sorry, but I just don't follow that math at all. The analysis of Milo is 5-2-0 and it weighs 36 lbs. That's only 1.8 lbs of N per bag, and at $12 a bag, that's $6.66 per pound of N! So, by my math, you aren't anywhere close to paying the same with either product at all, unless I'm lacking sleep and missing something here. A $40 dollar bag of 39-0-0 would have to cost $130 to match the price of Milo at the same N levels. On DrGiles's 10k yard for 1 lb of N per K, she'd need 200 lbs of Milo or just 25 pounds of 39-0-0. That would cost $20 vs a whopping $66 per app or a difference of $46 per app. Milo is great. So is slow release synthetic. But, by no means are they "roughly" the same price. I don't want to disagree with a 23 year lawn and landscape professional, but what am I missing here?

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Begotten
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Begotten » May 21st, 2016, 8:00 pm

Tony alony wrote:Drgiles, Whoa, look at all those leaves next to your property! Do you mulch them into the lawn?
I'm not a Bermuda grower, so I'm just curious. Do any Bermuda growers mulch leaves?
I do

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Begotten
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Re: Fertilizer Numbers

Post by Begotten » May 21st, 2016, 8:03 pm

dfw_pilot wrote:
Drgiles wrote:It's supposed to cover 12k, but I use the whole bag over what I think is about 10k.
To the good doctor, make sure you never read the coverage rates on a bag of fertilizer because they are just meaningless marketing numbers. Always, always do your own math to see what it covers. "Covers 12,000 feet" is meaningless, because it doesn't define at what rate. If you want 1 lb of N per K, your coverage will be different than someone who wants .5 lbs of N per K. Define the rate, and the coverage calculation is easy. There are some different formulae at the bottom of the BestLawn Bermuda Guide, but here are a couple examples of what I mean and some food for thought.

Take 100 ÷ N on the bag to get how many pounds of product you should spread to get 1 lb of Nitrogen per thousand on your grass. The Scott's Southern is 32-0-10, so 100 ÷ 32 is basically ~ 3 lbs of Scott's product in that bag that needs to be spread per thousand to get 1 lb of Nitrogen per K on your lawn. If the bag is 37.5 lbs (3.125 x 12,000 square feet) then 12,000 coverage at 1 lb of N per K is correct. If the bag weighs less than 37.5 lbs, the coverage is less than 1 lb of N per K. Brands like Scotts are always conservative on lbs per K because they don't want people burning their grass.

Another good way to compare apples to apples on prices for Nitrogen in fertilizer is to see how much N is really in the bag. 32-0-10 is 32% N. A 16 lb bag of 32-0-10 at HomeDepot is $15.50. 32% of 16 lbs is 5.12 lbs of Nitrogen in the bag, or $3.03 per pound of N (15.50 ÷ 5.12). Yikes, that's a lot of money for Nitrogen. Apples to apples with Lesco 39-0-0 slow release looks like this: 50 lb bag for $40. 19.5 lbs of N in that bag means the price per pound of N is $2.05 ($40 ÷ 19.5), a whole dollar per pound less, and it's slower release!

Which brings me to this:
hambone79 wrote:Here in Memphis Milorganite is around $12.00/bag. Slow-release synthetic fertilizer of any quality is greater than $40.00/bag. With Milorganite you generally need about 3-4 bags to equal the average analysis of a slow-release synthetic. My math has me paying about the same for either product, the only difference being the added labor of putting out the extra Milo to apply for desired results.
I'm sorry, but I just don't follow that math at all. The analysis of Milo is 5-2-0 and it weighs 36 lbs. That's only 1.8 lbs of N per bag, and at $12 a bag, that's $6.66 per pound of N! So, by my math, you aren't anywhere close to paying the same with either product at all, unless I'm lacking sleep and missing something here. A $40 dollar bag of 39-0-0 would have to cost $130 to match the price of Milo at the same N levels. On DrGiles's 10k yard for 1 lb of N per K, she'd need 200 lbs of Milo or just 25 pounds of 39-0-0. That would cost $20 vs a whopping $66 per app or a difference of $46 per app. Milo is great. So is slow release synthetic. But, by no means are they "roughly" the same price. I don't want to disagree with a 23 year lawn and landscape professional, but what am I missing here?
This post should be stickied or made to be mandatory reading

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Begotten
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Begotten » May 21st, 2016, 8:05 pm

And for the record, I always look to Milorganite mainly as a source of organic nutrients rather than relying on it as a primary source of nitrogen.

Drgiles
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Drgiles » May 21st, 2016, 8:23 pm

I've done the math on it before. The bag I get from SAMs or Costco is somewhere around 30-35 lbs. I don't remember off hand and don't have a bag in the house and it was hard to find on the Internet. But it has just around 10 lbs of N, which is perfect for my 10k yard.

It's nice because I'm at either Costco or SAMs club on a near weekly basis and I haven't seen a comparably priced slow release fertilizer at Home Depot or lowes. I know people find better deals at other stores, but my time is limited as I do this kind of stuff on the two days my in laws have my two year old and have just a few hours between dropping her off and needing to pick up my other child from school.

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Drgiles
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Re: Backyard experiment

Post by Drgiles » June 3rd, 2016, 11:31 am

2 more weeks in and the places where the Bermuda came back are starting to really fill in and get thicker. Now it's just a race to see if the patches can get together and fill in the bare spots between.

Image

Image

I have a few spots, especially at the back corner, where it just seems like hard dirt. I'm probably going to start trying a wetting agent in those areas and possibly do some localized aerating or plugging to move those along. I'm still considering my options. The previous owners had it fenced off like a garden back there, though nothing was growing but weeds, so it's probably got a different composition than the rest of the yard or possibly there's something they laid down beneath it that's causing problems.

I imagine weed block fabric could make it harder to grow grass in that area:

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