Where to start? Centipede

Bermuda, St. Augustine, Zoysia, Centipede, Bahia, Paspalum, etc
gibby13
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Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Grass Type: Centipede
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Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » July 20th, 2017, 12:18 pm

So we moved into our new house on the 3rd, in the Columbia, SC area. Not sure when the Centipede was laid, how it was laid, or anything that was done to it other than some watering. I know it was laid at least 3+ months ago.

It looks horrible.

I have read through http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/p ... c1215.html

Current task list:
1) Ordered soil sample tube probe so I can get a soil analysis done.
2) Ordered rain gauge to calibrate sprinklers to 1/2" every 3 days, according to Clemson's recommendation for sandy areas.
3) No idea.....


I did do a quick test last night with chelated liquid iron and surfactant at 2oz per 1gal and sprayed about 1000sq/ft in the backyard, just to see if I could get a nice green color.

Backyard is about 8000 sq/ft, sides are about about 900 sq/ft each and front is 1200 sq/ft. So around 11,000 sq/ft total.

My whole yard looks like the attached picture. No idea what kind of grass the nice green is of the neighbors. The dark green areas in my yard, I think are from where the dog has peed.
Image


Is there anything I should do prior to getting the soil analysis back? I do have about 10,000 sq/ft of 15-0-15 I could put done.

I would love to replace the centipede but unless there is something I could replace it with by seeding and not sod, it probably won't get approved by the wife.


TIA!

gibby13
Posts: 48
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Grass Type: Centipede
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 3rd, 2017, 1:45 pm

Was on vacation last week or so and wasn't able to do much, but I got a lot accomplished yesterday.

First. I calculated how long to water 1/2" for each zone, I noticed some of my zones overlap so I had to restart my calculations, but I have the # of minutes each zone needs to run. The controller the builder put is an X-Core which I don't like at all, I have an OpenSprinkler one from my old house that got hit by lightning, but was able to do the upgrade program and get the new V3 OpenSprinkler for $110. Once it arrives I will schedule the 1/2" watering every 3 days.

Second. I also took my soil samples and sent them off this morning.

Third. The iron application I did yielded no results. So I checked my calculations and found out I ended up only using 1oz per 1 gal. So I did another test last night of 2.5oz per 1 gal and sprayed about 1,000 sq/ft.

Fourth. I put on some new gator G5 mulching blades on my riding mower and leveled the deck.

Fifth, the grass out back is really starting to green up but only where the dog pees. Maybe I should get more dogs?

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andy10917
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by andy10917 » August 3rd, 2017, 5:37 pm

We're not ignoring you. We're waiting on the soil test numbers to see what else might grow where you are.

What's the typical lawn around you?

gibby13
Posts: 48
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Grass Type: Centipede
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 3rd, 2017, 5:43 pm

I am not complaining about lack of responses :) Just updating thread for historical purposes.

Most builders here put in Centipede or Bermuda. I like the look of Bermuda better, and from reading looks like it handles traffic better, we have a dog and 4 kids, so they will be running around all over the backyard(8,000 sq/ft).



On another note, I got an edger at lunchtime and tested it on part of my sidewalk and hit a sprinkler that was right up against the sidewalk :( I am going to test it after I finish edging tonight when I am done working.

I also hit a sprinkler mowing the first time, but the builder replaced it under warranty since it was sticking up to far.

gibby13
Posts: 48
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Grass Type: Centipede
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 7th, 2017, 1:46 pm

Spoke to my neighbor yesterday, found out he also has centipede, best looking I have ever seen, he said he had the builder put down fertilizer(no idea what kind) and they watered it twice a day for 2 weeks and had the builder pay the bill(he said it was $350 for the water bill... ouch!)

Anyways, LL just called and took my payment, so should have my soil analysis sometime this week :)

Didn't realize it at first, but my first mowing with rider and the blades were not leveled and some of the areas got scalped pretty bad(3.5 weeks ago) and those areas still have no recovered. I have my HOC set to just above 2" now, trying not to stress it too much.

Weatherman is calling for 0.3-0.7" of rain every day for the next week, so we shall see if he is right. They have been calling for 0.5" every day since Thursday but haven't got a drop of rain yet.

My new OpenSprinkler will be here today, does the 0.5" of water every 3 days still seem good? When I took my soil samples, I would say it was 90% sand, maybe more...


gibby13
Posts: 48
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Grass Type: Centipede
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 10th, 2017, 2:37 pm

Soil test results - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23148

From my research of the numbers, it is not as bad as I thought.

I would like to get some organic matter into my soil, but the only tree droppings we get around her a pine needles, matter of fact, they used them all around the house in the flowers beds, anyone need some free pine needles?

gibby13
Posts: 48
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Grass Type: Centipede
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 10th, 2017, 8:58 pm

Was going to upload pictures of my yard after I mowed, edged and trimmed today, but after I took pictures of the front, my neighbor came over with beer so I got side-tracked. Did get a good picture of part of the grass that is doing really good.

Image

Image

gibby13
Posts: 48
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Grass Type: Centipede
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 10th, 2017, 9:01 pm

Image

Image

gibby13
Posts: 48
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 14th, 2017, 11:53 am

Here are some pictures of the back, the dark green spots are where the dogs had peed. So I am thinking I am definitely lacking nitrogen.

All the pictures so far are pre any type of fertilizer. The only thing I have put down so far is Bifen LP.
Image

Image

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » August 18th, 2017, 1:07 pm

Here's your problem: You don't have centipede - you have St Augustine. The first clue was the green spots where your dog peed. Centipede does not respond to fertilizer like that. Now look at your picture with the sidewalk close up. On the far left of the pic is a blade that has not been mowed. That blunt tip is the tell-tale sign of St Augustine. Centipede has pointed tips. Furthermore you have signs of fungal disease on the underlying dead blades. The fact that you have underlying diseased blades smothered with healthy leaves, some of which have a purple cast, leads me to believe you have the Floratam variety of St Aug. Floratam grows so fast that it can often "resist" the fungal diseases by over growing them.

You need to change everything about your care.
  1. Stop watering now and let this dry out for several days.
  2. Reset your mower to the highest position and weld it into that spot. There is never any reason to mow St Aug lower than the highest position. Four, five, or six inches high is great. At that height you should be able to drive the mower right over your sprinkler heads.
  3. Find some organic fertilizer and apply at 15 pounds per 1,000 square feet. You can use Milorganite, Espoma, or you can go with a grain type fertilizer like soybean meal, alfalfa pellets (rabbit chow), corn meal or whatever you can find ground up in a 50-pound bag at your local feed store. Apply at 15 pounds per 1,000. After 3 weeks the entire lawn should be the color, density, and growth speed of the dog pee spots. Once you have the organic down you can either continue with organics or go with chemical fertilizers.
Watering: Deep and infrequent is the mantra for watering. This is for all turf grass all over the place. Deep means 1 inch all at one time. Put some cat food or tuna cans around the yard, and time how long it takes your sprinkler(s) to fill all the cans. Memorize that time. That will be the time you water from now on. My hose, sprinkler and water pressure takes 8 full hours to fill the cans. Your time will likely be less. I like gentle watering. As for watering frequency, that depends on the daytime air temperature. With temps in the 90s, deep water once per week. With temps in the 80s, deep water once every 2 weeks. With temps in the 70s, deep water once every 3 weeks. With temps below 70, deep water once a month. Note that you have to keep up with quickly changing temps in the spring and fall. This deep and infrequent schedule works in Phoenix and in Vermont, so it should work for you. The reason for deep and infrequent is to grow deeper, more drought resistant roots and to allow the soil to dry completely at the surface for several days before watering again. If it rains, reset your calendar to account for the rainfall.

gibby13
Posts: 48
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Grass Type: Centipede
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 18th, 2017, 1:20 pm

Dchall_San_Antonio wrote:
August 18th, 2017, 1:07 pm
Here's your problem: You don't have centipede - you have St Augustine. The first clue was the green spots where your dog peed. Centipede does not respond to fertilizer like that. Now look at your picture with the sidewalk close up. On the far left of the pic is a blade that has not been mowed. That blunt tip is the tell-tale sign of St Augustine. Centipede has pointed tips. Furthermore you have signs of fungal disease on the underlying dead blades. The fact that you have underlying diseased blades smothered with healthy leaves, some of which have a purple cast, leads me to believe you have the Floratam variety of St Aug. Floratam grows so fast that it can often "resist" the fungal diseases by over growing them.

You need to change everything about your care.
  1. Stop watering now and let this dry out for several days.
  2. Reset your mower to the highest position and weld it into that spot. There is never any reason to mow St Aug lower than the highest position. Four, five, or six inches high is great. At that height you should be able to drive the mower right over your sprinkler heads.
  3. Find some organic fertilizer and apply at 15 pounds per 1,000 square feet. You can use Milorganite, Espoma, or you can go with a grain type fertilizer like soybean meal, alfalfa pellets (rabbit chow), corn meal or whatever you can find ground up in a 50-pound bag at your local feed store. Apply at 15 pounds per 1,000. After 3 weeks the entire lawn should be the color, density, and growth speed of the dog pee spots. Once you have the organic down you can either continue with organics or go with chemical fertilizers.
Watering: Deep and infrequent is the mantra for watering. This is for all turf grass all over the place. Deep means 1 inch all at one time. Put some cat food or tuna cans around the yard, and time how long it takes your sprinkler(s) to fill all the cans. Memorize that time. That will be the time you water from now on. My hose, sprinkler and water pressure takes 8 full hours to fill the cans. Your time will likely be less. I like gentle watering. As for watering frequency, that depends on the daytime air temperature. With temps in the 90s, deep water once per week. With temps in the 80s, deep water once every 2 weeks. With temps in the 70s, deep water once every 3 weeks. With temps below 70, deep water once a month. Note that you have to keep up with quickly changing temps in the spring and fall. This deep and infrequent schedule works in Phoenix and in Vermont, so it should work for you. The reason for deep and infrequent is to grow deeper, more drought resistant roots and to allow the soil to dry completely at the surface for several days before watering again. If it rains, reset your calendar to account for the rainfall.
Thanks for this info!

Well this is interesting, the builder is saying they put down centipede, I actually had a conversation with them this morning tell them how much their sod install sucked, it is so bumpy and thin in a lot of places. Was trying to get them to re-do the installation. They say they only install centipede or bermuda.

I am definitely going to investigate more which sod they actually installed, as I understand what you are saying and see what you mean about the blunt blade tip. However, when it gets to about 3'' high we start getting seed heads.


As far as watering, my soil is almost all pure sand my OM is 1.3 or less. Here is my soil test results viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23148

According to Clemson University I should be watching 0.5" every 3 days for sandy soil. I already bought some rain gauges and put them through out the yard and I know how long each zone takes to get to 1". If I need to switch to 1" every week, I can do that too.

gibby13
Posts: 48
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Grass Type: Centipede
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 18th, 2017, 1:28 pm

Using the picture below, it definitely looks like I have St. Augustine.
Image

gibby13
Posts: 48
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 18th, 2017, 2:24 pm

So the landscaping coming that did the work was just here replacing a tree and fixing some sprinkler heads. I spoke to them about the sod and they said it is definitely 100% centipede, there were not able to tell me which cultivar though.

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » August 21st, 2017, 5:24 pm

If it gets up to 3 inches tall in a week or so, it simply cannot be centipede. Centipede is a low and slow growing grass. It usually suffers from alkaline soil, too much water, and too much fertilizer. It only grows in full sun.

There's another give away in the NC State pic you posted. See the hairy juncture in at the "knee" of the grass? That hair is absent in St Augustine.

What do the seed heads look like? Here are some St Augustine seed stalks.

Image

I'm not confident I have a picture of centipede seed heads. It seems the term centipede is used to describe many different looking grasses. The one(s) I'm familiar with grow very slowly and low to the ground. They tend to be yellowish no matter what. More than a little fertilizer sets them back. Your grass seemed to be thriving on the dog pee spots.

gibby13
Posts: 48
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
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Grass Type: Centipede
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 22nd, 2017, 9:02 pm

So 3'' is the seed heads in less than week.

Here are some pictures of the seed heads I pulled yesterday, 4 days after mowing. It does look like St. Augustine to me....

I put down some 15-0-15, 10 days ago and it really made a difference, I will post some pictures tomorrow.

Image

Image

gibby13
Posts: 48
Joined: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Grass Type: Centipede
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 23rd, 2017, 7:52 pm

Looking a lot better after 11 days of the 15-0-15.

On another note Milorganite smells like @$$, my wife asked if we loved near a farm lol. I put down 180 lbs of it late last night.


Front pictures

Image


Image

gibby13
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 23rd, 2017, 7:54 pm

Sides

Image

Image

gibby13
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by gibby13 » August 23rd, 2017, 7:57 pm

Back


Image

Image

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HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » August 24th, 2017, 7:52 pm

Just think how good it could look with as much Nitrogen as Fido is applying! :)

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: Where to start? Centipede

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » August 28th, 2017, 10:34 am

I hate when I get wishy washy. Those seed heads look like centipede. :banghead: :banghead:
St Augustine seeds are less regular. Generally centipede does not grow that fast nor respond to fertilizer; however, there are some hybrids out that may act more like a lawn grass than the old fashioned centipede.

Can you post another picture of the unmowed grass itself from about 6 inches away looking down and across?

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