Please help. Bermuda dying

Bermuda, St. Augustine, Zoysia, Centipede, Bahia, Paspalum, etc
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oclor
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Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by oclor » June 1st, 2018, 4:54 pm

Hello all,

I did a soil test early spring and have been following the wonderful suggestions I got on this site to incredible results. Over the past week unfortunately my Bermuda has take a sharp turn for the worse. Please see photos. Two weeks ago this was thick beautiful green grass. Now I had people working on the patio who wanted me to not have the water on so it was dried out with no rain for about 3 weeks. But I have hit it hard with water lately but things seem to continue deteriorating. Any idea what the cause is and how I can recover? Thank you I’m advance.
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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » June 1st, 2018, 5:52 pm

That does not look like lack of water. Lack of water is almost perfectly uniform looking. Try digging up 1 square foot of soil in one of the small bad spots. Look for grubs. If you find fewer than a dozen in a square foot, then bury them back, but if you find an uncountable mass of them, you have a problem.

What is your watering schedule? How often and for how long do you water?

oclor
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by oclor » June 1st, 2018, 7:01 pm

Thanks for the response. Just dug and didn’t find any grubs. I had already applied some grub killer a couple of weeks ago to combat an armadillo that was tearing up my mulch. The grass was very tough to dig through and from my understanding if it was grub damage it would have lifted easily due to root damage. Any other ideas? I saw the beginning of yellow spots last week and last weekend applied headway with my fertilizer routine I’m case there was a fungus (happened last year and headway did the trick)

oclor
Posts: 21
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by oclor » June 1st, 2018, 7:04 pm

One more thing that may help: I had a table sitting out in the yard that I had placed a cooler on to keep the patio workers hydrated. One day I wanted to take progress pics and pulled the table about 10 feet. The grass along the lines of where the legs of the table dragged died quickly. This seems strange!

PW405
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by PW405 » June 2nd, 2018, 11:11 am

Last summer I remember another person in Austin posting pictures that looked very similar. I think the poster determined it was a disease of some sort. May try going back to to review some of the older posts to see if you can find the thread.


oclor
Posts: 21
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by oclor » June 3rd, 2018, 12:13 pm

I believe that was me. I had a very similar situation last year on a different part of the lawn and hit it with headway g and lots of water and that did the trick. Doesn’t seem to be working this time around. I just applied some more headway g (bag says Bermuda can be sensitive to it but I’m running out of options). I’ll let you guys know if it works.

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » June 4th, 2018, 5:41 pm

Let's go back to what has been left unsaid.

What did you do in response to the comments here about the soil test? What did you apply? How much? When?
What was your watering schedule in the early to mid spring? How often and for how long did you water?
Have you used any herbicide, insecticide, fungicide, or anything else this year?

oclor
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by oclor » June 5th, 2018, 10:07 am

Please see below for my dates and applications. I did not keep track of watering, but the yard was probably dry for 2-3 weeks while the patio construction was underway. Prior to that I would water if there was no rain twice a week about .75 inches as needed.

March:
-10th: Dithiopyr
-17th: Milorganite 1.5 bags total with micronutrients
-21st: ortho insecticide from Costco - lasts 3 months at 4 lbs/1000sq ft
-24th: urea, TSP, SOP mix
-28th: spot sprayed weeds with triclopyr+weed killer+surfactant+colorant

April:
1st: Milorganite 1.5 bags total
4th: suspend bug spray on house and back yard
14th: Milorganite 2 bags total
20th: Urea, TSP, SOP mix

May:
6th: Urea, TSP, SOP mix (yard started looking good!)
13th: milorganite
20th: Urea, TSP, SOP mix

June:
3rd: milorganite + headway g to backyard and front side

kg70041
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by kg70041 » June 6th, 2018, 2:45 pm

I was under the impression that Triclopyr was a bad guy for Bermuda and is normally used for supression in cool-season lawns. Perhaps the spot spray was done when the grass wasn't too stressed and then the downtown happened after the hold-off on irrigation for awhile?

I had a bad recommendation to use a low concentration of triclopyr last year and I have since learned my lesson. Spot spray would probably be best left for Celsius?

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trussin
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by trussin » June 12th, 2018, 8:54 am

I had a similar problem this summer. I also had same spotty die off last summer:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20445&p=280724#p280724

I was never able to diagnose but suspect it was bug related. I have not treated for bugs this year, but guess I'll check for beetles next weekend and treat as necessary. I also had several weeks when the yard was not watered (due to severed irrigation pipes and control wires when we cut a trench through the yard). The good news is that, from what I recall from last summer, recovery was reasonably fast in affected areas.

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » June 12th, 2018, 11:05 am

Hate to be pedantic but
TSP = ? (hopefully not trisodium phosphate)
SOP = ? (probably does not stand for Standard Operating Procedures)

You were watering completely wrong for bermuda in Austin. Not watering for 2-3 weeks would make zero difference to bermuda in the spring - especially since we got 2-3 inches of rain every month from January through April. Now watering for 2-3 months, if those months were July and August, might cause some drying, but still nothing that looks like what you have.

How many bags of Milo you used is less important than the application rate. How many pounds per 1,000 square feet is more helpful.

  • March 10 was late for the first app of preemergent. In south and south central Texas it should go down about Washington's birthday.
  • March insecticide was a complete waste of money and time. The insects that matter don't appear until July.
  • March spot spraying with triclopyr very likely resulted in the spotty appearance in the pictures.
  • April bug spray on the lawn was a complete waste of money and time.
  • Second and third apps of fertilizer in April and May were a waste of money and time. Once a month is puh-LENTY.
  • Headway fungicide is very likely a waste of money and time. If you had a disease, which I don't see any evidence of, it is too hot now to apply fungicide. Hopefully it will not do more damage to the grass. Fungicides are death to the beneficial fungi in the soil, so I avoid them if at all possible.
Personally I think you need to just stop trying to fix everything, or anything, for that matter. Focus on getting the watering right, mow low, and fertilize once a month. Stop everything else and let the let the lawn recover from all the chemicals. You have used more chemicals this year than I have used in 45 years of lawn care. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Even now you should not be watering more than once a week. If I can have a thriving patch of St Augustine in this heat and dry weather, surely you can keep the bermuda alive. Here's the plan...
Watering: Deep and infrequent is the mantra for watering. This is for all turf grass all over the place. Deep means 1 inch all at one time. Put some cat food or tuna cans around the yard, and time how long it takes your sprinkler(s) to fill all the cans. Memorize that time. That will be the time you water from now on. My hose, sprinkler and water pressure takes 8 full hours to fill the cans. Your time will likely be less. I like gentle watering. As for watering frequency, that depends on the daytime air temperature. With temps in the 90s, deep water once per week. With temps in the 80s, deep water once every 2 weeks. With temps in the 70s, deep water once every 3 weeks. With temps below 70, deep water once a month. Note that you have to keep up with quickly changing temps in the spring and fall. This deep and infrequent schedule works in Phoenix and in Vermont, so it should work for you. The reason for deep and infrequent is to grow deeper, more drought resistant roots and to allow the soil to dry completely at the surface for several days before watering again. If it rains, reset your calendar to account for the rainfall.
If your temps are above 100, you can either increase the watering time or go to watering every 5 days. My pref would be for increasing the time if you don't otherwise have watering restrictions. But bermuda should look great for a week to 10 days with once a week deep watering.

oclor
Posts: 21
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by oclor » June 12th, 2018, 9:04 pm

Thanks for your great input. Most of the things you said regarding watering frequency, fertilizing amount and frequency I had run into on this site and others, but I have been following the plan recommended for me here based on my soils test results. Here is the link: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23659

The lawn seems to be recovering now slowly so I’m hoping for the best.

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » June 15th, 2018, 3:04 pm

So TSP and SOP are fertilizer macro nutrients. Good.
TSP = triple superphosphate which is probably trisodium phosphate.
SOP = sulfate of potash or potassium sulfate

The watering that was recommended in the other thread was not very specific. What I suggested should be as specific as needed to get you started down the right path.

oclor
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by oclor » August 23rd, 2018, 8:32 pm

Image


Lab tests came back today confirming Take-All Patch. Yard worse than ever and my fungicides seem to not work at all. Not sure why most comments are anti fungus treatment on these forums when catching early on or preventing may have saved my yard.

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andy10917
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by andy10917 » August 23rd, 2018, 8:41 pm

Really? You're going to blame this on someone else? It's your lawn and you're selecting fungicides that aren't working, but it's someone else's fault?

Uncool.

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turf_toes
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by turf_toes » August 23rd, 2018, 9:59 pm

oclor wrote:
August 23rd, 2018, 8:32 pm
Image


Lab tests came back today confirming Take-All Patch. Yard worse than ever and my fungicides seem to not work at all. Not sure why most comments are anti fungus treatment on these forums when catching early on or preventing may have saved my yard.
It’s true that catching fungal problems early is key. But that means you have to know it’s a fungal problem early.

That means you probably should have submitted a sample for testing long ago, not when symptoms were really bad.

Folks here aren’t against treating for fungus when that problem actually exists. But it’s generally not a great plan to start treating for a problem you don’t know that you have.

If you’ve had problems in the past, you can treat preventatively.

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » September 7th, 2018, 7:33 pm

Let's look at this and see what we could have done to fix this months ago.

We got tons of rain this spring, and you mentioned that you watered 1.5 inches per week for the weeks you did not get rain. This horribly excessive over watering is probably the root cause of the disease. The soil and the normal soil microbes could not get enough air to survive. Cutting off the air allows the disease causing microbes to take hold. It also stresses the grass by air starvation to the roots.

Then you started using chemical after chemical on the grass. Here's your list
Dithiopyr (pre emergent)
ortho insecticide (not needed and harmful to the soil)
urea (stressful organicish fertilizer that works well on healthy bermuda)
triclopyr (harmful to bermuda)
suspend bug spray (not needed and harmful to the soil)
Urea
Urea
Urea
headway g *, **, ***, ****(very harmful to the soil and probably too late to apply)

*For what it's worth, the Headway G bottle says, ATTENTION: Bermudagrass can be sensitive to Headway G. Do not exceed 3 lb. product/1,000 sq. ft. every 30 days on any variety of bermudagrass."

**It also says, "Headway G should be integrated into an overall disease and pest management strategy whenever the use of a fungicide is required. Cultural practices known to reduce disease development should be
followed." What this means is that the grass should not be kept soaking wet, because that is THE cultural practice that is well known to cause disease.

***It also says, "Cultural practices such as proper choice of turf variety, nutrient management, proper cutting height, thatch management, and proper watering, drainage, and moisture stress management should be integrated with the use of fungicides to increase turf vigor and reduce the susceptibility to disease.

****Where temperatures are addressed it indicates it is good to use up to 90 degrees F.

I think the lawn was stressed from too much water before the Triclopyr was applied. When that was applied the spots happened. With addition of all the rest of the chemical stress, I believe the lawn was weakened and ripe for a disease. Had you don't nothing at all besides mow, not even watered it, it would look fine today - maybe a little yellow. The headway also says not to repeatedly use Headway alone because the pathogens will develop a resistance. So I would suggest using something else. First, completely stop watering it. Of course now it's raining almost an inch a day, but when that stops, don't water for a month. Then sometime in late October check to see if you see new growth and that that new growth is coming all the way to maturity and looking healthy. Then if you feel the need to use another fungicide, pick something else. Temps will be cooler so when you start to irrigate again, make it once every 2 or 3 weeks.

So what could we have done to help you? In my opinion stopping watering along with all the chemicals might have helped, but the damage had been done and topped off with the application of Headway G. After that it was just a matter of counting the casualties.

smontgo150
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Re: Please help. Bermuda dying

Post by smontgo150 » September 9th, 2018, 3:35 pm

Bermuda is the devils weed errrr, I mean grass. NOTHING short of Nuclear Winter will eradicate it. UREA and water. Repeat. You'll have a great yard again in short order. I had 2.5 acres of the stuff in Dallas. It was the honestly the easiest grass ever to deal with. When I was sure It was fully dormant, I'd blanket spray GLYO to kill anything green and then the in the spring scalp it, then hit it hard with UREA. My yard was amazing. Don't miss my water bills though.

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