LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

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LadyAnglesey
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LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by LadyAnglesey » August 9th, 2018, 4:04 pm

Autumn 2018 Full Renovation. The "yard" used to be hubby's joy/job, but he died young 2 summers ago and I was too traumatized to even notice the lawn was failing miserably. I'm woke now. (smile).

So, I'm killing off my Bermuda/Orchardgrass/Crabgrass, a small edged section of Asian Jasmine, etc. "lawn" in favor of 100% turf type tall fescue.

I'm in the North Texas portion of the transition zone. FYI, I will be using GCI Custom Blend from Pete. So my plan is to do 3 rounds of glyphosate 2 weeks apart, allowing it to brown each time, then lower the mower deck to expose more green. I'm watering deeply twice weekly to encourage the weeds and grass to "show their faces" so I can smack them good and hard on each go 'round.

I used a hose end sprayer 3 days ago, because I have very large sections with no other vegetation I cared to spare. I followed directions carefully and added 2 surfactants in the amounts suggested by The Grass Factor (Matt Martin YouTuber), baby shampoo and ethanol fuel. I also used suggested info from DoMyOwn for hose-end spraying glyphosate and a new Ortho bottle dialed it to the suggested rate.

Three days ago I shot the whole 5,000 sqft with HDX 41% glyphosate, with a touch of Mark-It Blue dye so I'd be sure to get it all. I did not water afterward, knowing about 30 hours later we were getting a steady downpour overnight for the first time in about a month.

Today is the 3rd day, but although the blue ink washed away, I don't really see any "death signs". When I used this on a test strip a month ago, using a conventional spray canister, I saw wilting and "browning" began in one day.

But looking at it today, there doesn't appear to be any change, EXCEPT (unless it's an optical illusion), the orchardgrass and Bermuda patches seem to be a bright lime green.

Is that normal? Or a fluke? Do I really need to shoot this whole thing again with the 2 gal. handheld sprayer? I hope not, as it still hot as blazed here. Please advise. Anyone, jump in.

I appreciate any help, as although I've been reading, lurking, and trying my best, this isn't my regular gig and I've found that widowhood has made me too big of a target for commercial services, if you get my meaning.

Thanks. (No pics yet, as it's really hot and, frankly I'm too ashamed of the way it all looks right now.)

gardenpants
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by gardenpants » August 9th, 2018, 6:11 pm

Hello, and welcome to the forums! I'm happy to see another North Texan here.

(I hope I didn't sound harsh in my reply in the Roll Call thread. It was never my intention!)

Let's break your comments down:

[quote] So my plan is to do 3 rounds of glyphosate 2 weeks apart, allowing it to brown each time, then lower the
mower deck to expose more green. I'm watering deeply twice weekly to encourage the weeds and grass to "show
their faces" so I can smack them good and hard on each go 'round. [/quote]

Great plan.

[quote] I followed directions carefully and added 2 surfactants in the amounts suggested by The Grass Factor (Matt Martin YouTuber), baby shampoo and ethanol fuel. [/quote]

This is where there might be a bit of a problem. In general, it is NOT recommended to use carrier oils (methylated seed oil, crop oil concentrates, or in your case, ethanol) with glyphosate. Oils will reduce the effectiveness of the glyphosate. The baby shampoo is OK.

[quote] Today is the 3rd day, but although the blue ink washed away, I don't really see any "death signs". [/quote]

This is normal, especially with difficult to kill plants like bermudagrass. It may take 2 or 3 applications for the bermuda to even start yellowing. And then, when you think it's dead, more will pop-up from underground! Even for easier to kill weeds, it often takes a full 7 days for plants to start to yellow.

Extremely hot, dry weather can also slow the killing. There are several reasons for this. First, when the plants are heat stressed, their metabolism slows, and they don't take in as much as the herbicide. This is the reason you want to keep your weeds watered and possibly fertilized before applying glyphosate. You want to keep your weeds happy and growing. Second, the hot air dries the herbicide on the leaves quickly, making it more difficult for the plant to absorb. Plants are better at absorbing liquids through their leaves. You may want to consider spraying in the mornings, when it is a little cooler.

Third, glyphosate strongly attaches itself to soil particles. Hot, dry weather often means hot, dusty weather. Spraying glyphosate on dusty leaves means glyphosate attaching itself to the dust, rather than the leaves, making it less effective. This is another reason watering the weeds before glyphosate application can be helpful; it washes off the dust.

Right now, you're off to a good start. You're planning on making multiple herbicide applications anyway, so I wouldn't worry if this first pass wasn't "perfect".

Good luck! Please keep us updated.

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » August 9th, 2018, 6:23 pm

Where do you live? We put the Location requirement in there to find out the city or town, not the region. For example West Texas is larger than many states. North Texas is almost that bad. For those who don't live in Texas they assume you live in the Panhandle, because it's 200 miles farther north than you are.

Wish you hadn't started with the RoundUp yet. I would try to convince you that bermuda was going to be a much better choice than fescue. Dallas (I assume you're in Dallas) is too hot for a cool season grass. With the Earth warming the transition zone is moving northward making your area more and more of a warm season turf region.

The Grass Factor guy lives in Knoxville, which is quite a bit different from the Dallas area. I'd watch him for entertainment purposes, but take his advice with a grain of salt. His climate is considerably more humid and possibly rainy than yours.

LadyAnglesey
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by LadyAnglesey » August 9th, 2018, 9:12 pm

Thanks gardenpants for the encouragement. Everything you said made perfect sense. Last time I did a test patch was in the Spring and the temps were in the 60's, quite a bit cooler and low humidity. And I thought I was nuts then to have added fertilizer to encourage the weeds and grass, but now I don't feel like a dolt. So, I'll keep after it watering and waiting. And I have fairly thick skin, but your message was on point and courteous, so thank you again.

Hi Dchall-San_Antonio. Thanks for your input, too. I'm in Plano, TX. But, friend, not the longest day I live will you convince me to go back to Bermuda again. I may have confused you by mentioning The Grass Factor. I watch him for his sciencey stuff of the why-fors and whatnots of soil conditioning mostly. But I'm basing my Tall Fescue conversion on Pete Denny with GCI Turf. He's in North Carolina's transition zone. For about 8 months I've checked his temperatures, rainfall, humidity, etc. to see if I could do this. Of course, he's a bit cooler and dryer, but on average only by about 8-10 degrees. And I like his program for getting TTTF through heat waves and drought.

But the kicker was that I know of a handful of folk near me in Plano who've had TTTF and it's gorgeous. If for any reason this fails, I'm moving over to St. Augustine, but I nicknamed my Bermuda lawn "Bill" just so I could label my turf renovation plan "Kill Bill"! Lol. That's how much I'm sick of dealing with this ornery stuff.

I didn't mention it, but I actually got a beautiful stand of TTTF to grow this year, seeding in early Spring, (a no-no for cool season grasses, but such was my upbringing I didn't even think of that.) Still, it held its own, even in long weeks of 100+ temps. It's just that I thought this tired old lawn was devoid of Bermuda and didn't realize that it would take over once I knew to fertilize, feed and water the TTTF. The Bermuda encroached and strangled most of it.

But I learned my lesson. "Kill Bill" and convert to TTTF, seeding at the right time of year and feeding, watering, mowing high and tending it properly. Eith help of this forum, I'm not looking back. Thanks again!

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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by gardenpants » August 9th, 2018, 10:50 pm

Glad I could help, L.A.

I'm also no fan of bermuda, so I'm interested when others in this region try other grasses. I'm all for pushing boundaries. However, an 8 to 10 degree difference is nothing to sniff at. For a tropical plant, for instance, the difference between 42*F and 32*F is literally life and death. I take more stock in the fact that you and your neighbors have been able to grow TTTF successfully. If it was able to survive this year's heat wave, you're in good shape. Didn't we break a record for hottest July?

I look forward to your updates!


LadyAnglesey
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by LadyAnglesey » August 9th, 2018, 11:27 pm

Yes, we did break a record what with that heat dome that lasted so long. I can't recall the last time we hit 100 in early June. The NOAA that said July was the 11th hottest month on record for the USA as a whole.

As for those patches of TTTF that made it through the heat in my yard, I'm truly amazed. Next year, they didn't even go dormant. And I attribute that to finally learning to use the cycle-soak and mowing only every 3 1/2 to 4 weeks, leaving it at 4-5 inches. I also learned "syringing"...turning the sprinklers on for 4 minutes midday to cool the grass crowns.

I have an actual plan for next Summer and can't wait to play. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the very strong thunderstorm that's pouring down on my lawn right now tonight. Hope you got some, too.

gardenpants
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by gardenpants » August 10th, 2018, 7:41 am

The thunderstorm sure sounded nice, but I think it only gave me about 1/10" of rain. Hope you got more than that.

Is syringing even allowed where you're at? In Dallas, we're not allowed to water between 10 am and 6pm, and then only twice a week. I'm on pins and needles because I just seeded a lawn reno and am watering multiple times a day, every day.

LadyAnglesey
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by LadyAnglesey » August 10th, 2018, 8:08 am

We got much more than that. Enough so that my RainMachine smart irrigation controller elected to skip this morning's regular 1/2 inch cycle due to what it calls "water surplus".

Luckily, we're not under restrictions, only suggestions, as Plano draws from a different water source than Dallas proper (North Texas Municipal Water District ) and the lake levels are holding steady. So I'm allowed to water regularly and syringe.

I know what you mean about pins and needle, but I hope you're able to keep your seed babies happy long enough.

This Autumn, I'm not trusting it to fate and am going to use SoilMoist Seed Coat to ensure the reno retains enough water.

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » August 10th, 2018, 8:59 am

St Aug would be my first choice for your area, but that's my universal first choice no matter what. Except you already had bermuda, so it's easier to make that work than to convert to anything else. I need to check your sources to see how to get fescue through the heat. I'm sure it involves too much water, but I would like to understand it.

LadyAnglesey
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by LadyAnglesey » August 10th, 2018, 1:52 pm

I used no additional water, rather changed the way and times that I watered. Here's what I did this past Spring And Summer to prepare:

1. Upgraded my old misting sprinkler heads to Hunter rotary heads, which produced fat droplets that decreased evapotranspiration letting me water less frequently.

2. Replaced my analog irrigation controller with a smart one, (got a $50 rebate from the City to do it).

3. Programmed watering cycle and soak methods to give this clay "soil" time to absorb, eliminating runoff.

4. Watered deeply, but a max of twice weekly, less if rain made up the difference.

5. Programmed controller to syringing a 4-minute sprinkler cycle when temperatures reached/sustained XX degrees, just enough to keep the grass crown alive.

6. I mowed no longer than 4 inches and kept it at 6 inches during the worst of the Summer. I went a month at a time with no mowing but did edge for neatness.

I did spread low-phosphorous slow release fertilizers in Spring, and humates only in Summer (liquid and granules, NO nitrogen).

The result was, the TTTF held it's own, stayed green and didn't wilt. The downside was, having seeded in Spring rather than Autumn, the blades never got as wide, nor the roots as deep as normal TTTF. But worst of all, the Bermuda happily benefitted from all the care I gave the TTTF. That's why I've put out a contract on it. This is the year it dies.

I've refined my plan for the renovation, added some things, subtracted others, tweaked some more. I'm here to pick your brains, Dchall, so I'll keep you posted, Dchall.

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » August 10th, 2018, 5:50 pm

Very interesting. Thanks for the details.

PW405
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by PW405 » August 10th, 2018, 9:15 pm

LadyAnglesey - I'll be quite impressed if you can pull off a TTTF lawn in Plano. We certainly push our luck with cool season turf in this part of the country, but I think it is possible, provided you baby it through summer and then really care for it in the fall. You'll likely need to overseed every fall. Does your lawn get any shade?

While I know it is may sound like insanity to some of the northern folks, I've actually found that TTTF and Bermuda can play well together. I know it can produce an odd mix of textures/colors, but If I hit my (common) bermuda with Milorganite and Ironite, the colors are closer. I know your longterm goal isn't to have both in the lawn, but you'll likely find bermuda showing up next summer despite your best efforts to kill it off. In some ways, I think that having bermuda creep around under the fescue canopy can help reduce soil temps. I could be completely wrong, but there's one spot in my front yard that they seem to happily coexist.

I highly suggest that you submit a soil sample to Logan Labs and then have it interpreted by "Soil Team 6" (ST6) here on the message boards if you haven't already. Don't forget to request Ammonium Acetate extraction of cations due to your location. Best money I've ever spent on lawn care!

I also think that using the home-brew "BLSC" (Best Lawn Soil Conditioner) and Kelp Help + Humates will help fescue's chances of getting deep roots before the summer heat hits. The article is here. I apply it at least 2x monthly practically all year.
https://aroundtheyard.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=117

PW405
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by PW405 » August 11th, 2018, 9:31 am

Oh something else I forgot to mention. I've tried to use the Home Depot 41% Glypho before and I didn't have good luck with it. For some reason it didn't seem to have anywhere near the killing power of the lower concentration name brand stuff. There's an additional ingredient, some form of acid, in name brand RoundUp that the HD stuff doesn't have. When I mix a tank now, I used about half name brand and half home depot stuff and it works really well.

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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by gardenpants » August 11th, 2018, 2:38 pm

PW405--If you're talking about the Roundup Concentrate Plus in the red-lidded bottle at HD, the additional ingredient is Diquat. Diquat is a dessicant, meaning it dries the leaf where it touches it. From what I understand, diquat is added for visual effect. It makes the leaf brown quickly, making people think it makes the glyphosate work faster. It doesn't, not according to research out of Auburn University:

https://www.totallandscapecare.com/chem ... f-the-mix/

The last sentence: “The theory that diquat makes glyphosate work faster is incorrect. Rapid onset of diquat-based injury is independent and inhibits the activity of glyhosate. If diquat is included, higher glyphosate rates must be used to avoid any loss of long-term control. Although higher rates are likely easily achieved in these ready-to-use products, it does represent excessive herbicide usage for a transitory benefit.”

I understand where you're coming from, though. When I first switched from branded Roundup to the HD gly, I didn't think it was working, either. Barely looked like any effect after a week. Then, one time I sprayed, and then had to go out of town the next week. Plants looked green, just slightly pale when I left, but when I came back (2 weeks after application), I was surprised to see a giant patch of dead brown grass.

LadyAnglesey
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by LadyAnglesey » August 11th, 2018, 4:37 pm

Thanks for the tips, PW405. I bought some Bonide Turbo Spreader Sticker to add to it for the next round, but I've used this brand to great effect in the past. Also, we've had continuous slow steady rain for nearly 2 days now and it's cooled the temps for now. Two weeks ago, it was 103, right now 76. And I've finally noticed the lawn turning sickly pale green. Yippee!

I know there's a "danger" of Bermuda coming back, but I think I can give it a run for its money by adding Tenacity to the glyphosate on each treatment and once again by itself right after I've seeded the fescue. Early Spring I'm going to spray the lawn with Prodiamine pre-emergent on a regular cycle, (and Triplet for the weeds). If any Bermuda gets past that, it gets smoked, even if it puts a hay-color spot in my yard. (I'm watching you Bermuda!)

I'll definitely look into the soil conditioner as I have a 50 bag of humate prills unopened. Have to check into the other supplies, but I do wonder if the molasses will attract pests.

The next 12 months I plan to spread humate granules at least once a month in some form or fashion whenever I do fungicide, pre/post emergent, fertilizer, or grub treatments. I'm all for conditioning this clay.

I'm going to spray fungicide this Fall/Winter in preparation for the likely late evening rains and in case we get snow (Plano does more than Dallas), or one of our famous ice storms. This will help ward off snow mold.

But my secret weapon is pasture fertilizer. My Dad grew up on a farm, and I recall him telling me how pasture grass HAD to get the livestock through Summer. So I hunted down some slow release, low phosphorous with lots of micronutrients (something I've never seemed to need to fool with on Bermuda) like sulfur, zinc, calcium, manganese, boron, copper, humates, et. al. that toughen up the grass from Fall through Spring so it better tolerates drought and extreme heat for long periods. It ain't cheap, but I really wanted it just for this first year of renovation.

And yes, as tall fescue is a clumping grass, I do need to overseed in Fall from next year on. But the upside is I can tear out those metal flowerbed edgers that did a surprisingly good job of stopping Bermuda. I'm going to do natural border edges with the fescue.

I figure, my job for the next 9 month is to prepare a tall fescue lawn to withstand the 3 months of intense Texas Summers.

I did soil tests earlier. Levels were unremarkable and the pasture fert should take care of the micronutrients, but pH was out of whack. Since then, peat moss and lime have leveled me out. I keep the pH between 6.5 and 7, which is optimum for tall fescue. So far that's not been an issued.

My lawn is about 30% shaded with mature Japanese Maple, Red Oak, and Pecan. Plus a stand of 30 foot Re-tipped photinias along the perimeter. Still, much of it gets direct sunlight, the rest diffused sunlight.

I can hardly wait to get started once those cool temps arrive! I'll keep ya posted.

LadyAnglesey
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by LadyAnglesey » August 11th, 2018, 5:29 pm

gardenpants wrote:
August 11th, 2018, 2:38 pm
PW405--If you're talking about the Roundup Concentrate Plus in the red-lidded bottle at HD, the additional ingredient is Diquat. Diquat is a dessicant, meaning it dries the leaf where it touches it. From what I understand, diquat is added for visual effect. It makes the leaf brown quickly, making people think it makes the glyphosate work faster. It doesn't, not according to research out of Auburn University:

https://www.totallandscapecare.com/chem ... f-the-mix/

The last sentence: “The theory that diquat makes glyphosate work faster is incorrect. Rapid onset of diquat-based injury is independent and inhibits the activity of glyhosate. If diquat is included, higher glyphosate rates must be used to avoid any loss of long-term control. Although higher rates are likely easily achieved in these ready-to-use products, it does represent excessive herbicide usage for a transitory benefit.”

I understand where you're coming from, though. When I first switched from branded Roundup to the HD gly, I didn't think it was working, either. Barely looked like any effect after a week. Then, one time I sprayed, and then had to go out of town the next week. Plants looked green, just slightly pale when I left, but when I came back (2 weeks after application), I was surprised to see a giant patch of dead brown grass.
Wow, this is really good to know. Now I don't feel so inadequate. Thanks for this info. I love knowing the whys and why nots of things.

gardenpants
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by gardenpants » August 11th, 2018, 5:57 pm

LadyAnglesey,
I'm jealous of your water availability. : )

Thanks for sharing details. Are you using a local source for the humates and slow release fertilizer? Would you mind sharing that source if you are? Thanks!

PW405
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by PW405 » August 12th, 2018, 11:01 am

Re: Shade. What I've found to be biggest challenge for getting fescue through our summer heat (OKC easily gets as hot as DFW) is the parts of the lawn where fescue is exposed to the late afternoon/evening sun. The air temp is so much hotter by the end of the day that areas exposed to the evening sun seem to lose moisture faster.

I've really come to love cool season grass here in the southern plains. I look at like this: Option 1 - grow bermuda or other warm season turf. Enjoy ~4 months of vigorous growth and then have a brown lawn for ~6+ months. Option 2 - have a green lawn practically all year, but with some panicking in July & August. Maybe some panicking in June, depending on the year. Heck, even if the lawn goes 100% dormant/dead in July & August, you're still looking at only two months of brown lawn out of the year. The climate in this part of the country gives us quite a few months of good growing conditions for TTTF.

I'm really interested to see how your lawn is going to perform over the "winter". With the DFW area generally not getting as cold as OKC, I wonder if it will ever actually stop growing over the winter?

Sounds like you've done your homework for the most part! Only other thing I would suggest is having a disease prevention/fighting strategy for next summer. Excited to see how your project progresses!

LadyAnglesey
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by LadyAnglesey » November 13th, 2018, 10:30 am

I promised an update. It's been an interesting renovation, especially given the unusual weather. I had to adjust, adapt, repatch after some washout from the heavy rains, spoon-feed liquid and granular ferts and humates, etc. But it shaped up nicely and came in lovely. It's had 2 mowings down to 4" and I will fit in a 3rd, possibly final, cut before the cold weather sticks.

It's due to warm to the 60's, but I laid down a solid Winter feeding, just in case it didn't warm up again.


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LadyAnglesey
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Re: LadyAnglesey 2018 Renovation Help

Post by LadyAnglesey » November 13th, 2018, 1:28 pm

Just went back and re-read earlier posts. So to answer your questions:

1. I bought the humate off Amazon and used most of it, but soon switched to Green County Fert N-EXT products of RGS, Dethatch, Air-8, GreenEffect. It's easier to apply with a hose-end sprayer and the seeds (and later grass) got watered at the same time.

2. I didn't feel confident enough this time in my DIY abilities to try the "Best Soil Conditioner". But luckily, the N-EXT products are the same thing with Kelp, Humic/Fulvic Acids, Sulfur, molasses, yeast, and so on. The clay responded quite well to it and I always saw some sort of response within a few days.

3. I rototilled this entire lawn with peat moss, but I wish I had also used some manure in places. That's where I had to go back in and patch.

4. I had to remove two of the trees after I got a structural engineering report saying they (the silver maple with its surface roots and the pecan tree) were encroaching on the foundation and draining it of moisture now that they'd matured. It was that or expensive roots barriers.) So I have maybe 18% shade now, instead of 30%. I did replace the silver maple with a berm featuring a 6' Japanese Bloodgood Maple, and also have planted a Black Diamond Purely Purple Crape Myrtle. I have 3 Eastern Redbuds coming to plant in a row to help shade the sunniest part of the lawn that otherwise never gets shade.

5. I'll be using the irrigation technique of "syringing" now that I've replaced my antiquated irrigation controller with a RainMachine smart controller. Along with IFFF (If This Then That), I've set up programs for next Summer telling the controller to "spritz" the sun-drenched zones for 5 minutes if temps approach X. I've tested that during the hottest part of this renovation and as researched, lowers the soil surface by about 12 degrees. I figure that's a negligible amount even if we come under water restrictions next year.

And you needn't be jealous of our water access lately. I lost, (as well as my neighbors), about 40% of my trees when we were under drought restrictions a few years ago. Even the Bermuda gave up in spots due to the clay compaction.

6. I spread the new-ish Scotts DiseaseEX to ward off fungus during these monsoons we've been having from hurricane fallout. DiseaseEX has the same and same amount of Azoxystrobin as the more expensive commercial products. I stocked up because I'm afraid Scotts will decide they set the price too cheap for its availability. Lol. Lowes and HD have it, as well as Amazon for about $15-$18 for 5k sqft.

7. For winterizing, I looked at a ton of stuff for months before deciding on a combination of Scotts Winterguard 32-0-10 (without the weed killer because I don't want to chance of damaging the new grass), N-EXT's RGS (humic/fulvic acids, sea kelp), Hyr BRIX Lawn Fertilizer (although, for the cost prohibitive shipping price, I will use N-EXT MicroGreene from now on, but I already had it on hand). The lawn has a full belly and enough to snack on through Winter.

8. About future Bermuda encroachment: I know it will rear it's head again, but as I've resolved to do my own lawn care including all mowing, fertilizing, weed killing, etc., I'll see it first. I'm committed to controlling it, although I know I can't ever completely destroy it, (I tilled out roots down to 8 inches even), so if needs must, I will grudgingly invest in some Pylex in the Spring.

9. I have a feeling we're in for a harsh Winter. As I type, we've already had to hard freezes, (woke up to "real feel" of 16 this morning). But some upper 60s sunny days coming. Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see snow or ice by Christmas. I expect I'll be doing some light patching come late March, but must time it with also putting down the pre-emergent.

So, I don't think the lawn will be active much this Winter, but I plan to just leave it be, at any rate until early Spring when I start the pre-emergent and green up cycle.

10. I bulked at spending the money for Tenacity, but OMG, there's not one single weed that came up in my lawn and it killed off all the sedge as the grass came up. It's as if the Tenacity inoculated the topmost soil layer. I know that's temporary, but it sure beats having to watch the grass compete with weeds for water, sun, and nutrients. Scared me at first though, because I didn't know about the side effect of the grass coming up white, pink, and purple. It looked like cotton candy! Ha!

11. I treated for grubs with BioAdvanced (formerly, BayerAdvanced) Grub Killer Plus in Sept before seeding. I still saw a few tiny grubs when I was tilling, but only like 20 grubs in the whole lawn. I don't know why it surprised me to see any at all. I'll treat again in Spring when it's time.

12. For Summer, I'm researching to see what to lay down in Spring to give the lawn its best advantage for a Texas Summer: HyR BRIX has a fert called "Pasture Fertilizer" that folk swear by. The cost is good, but the shipping per bag doubles the price! Eeek. Then there's the just-announced CarbonX by Matt Martin & Green County fert, that will include the humates, etc.

I'll have to think about it all and guage cost vs benefits.

13. I found a cheap ($9) nitrogen only fert by Howard Johnson's of all things! It's 21-0-0 and I think Lowes was selling off its stock, so I got several bags. It's granular, but also can be dissolved into a sprayer. I used 1/4 to 1/2 amounts of it to spoon feed the baby grass when it was struggling with the funky fluctuating weather. That worked.

14. I used Scotts Starter fert for New Grass, but I unlike usual, I didn't spread it with seeding, but about 10 days after. I think that was a mistake, best the heavy rains that came washed out spots of baby grass that would have been denser and better rooted had I used the Scotts at seeding like I usually do.

15. It took almost exactly 8 weeks (2 months), and 4 rounds to kill off all the Bermuda. Much longer than I had scheduled, so I first seeded on Sept 29th. First mow was exactly one month later on Oct 29th. I was getting worried about the Bermuda until someone told me to add a bit of Fusilade II to the Glypho. That turned the trick!

I hope I answered all your questions. If I forgot something, let me know. Thanks for everyone's good help. You made my renovation work!

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