New Guy Trying to Learn

[ctrav]

Hello All...

I came to this site to learn more about how to care for my lawn. Here is some data:

- we are in north Texas just south of Denton and north of Ft Worth
- just over an acre with 34k sq ft of yard to maintain
- front and rear yard are Tiff 419 Bermuda sod
- soil is hard Texas clay
- I have soil analysis from Texas A&M (get one every year)
- Toro zero turn and Toro self propelled
- full irrigation (mostly boaters)
- sod installed a year ago

The lawns not horrible but the ground underneath is. The back yard has a tendency to split in a few areas. I water 3 times a week set on automatic RainBird schedule which has each cycle at about 24 min per zone except for flower beds. Grass is thicker in most areas this year than last year so there is improvement.

I do have a few brown/dormant looking spots. I have started cutting the grass shorter (from 3' down to 2"). I treat for weeds and fertilize. Just want to learn more...

Thanks

[andy10917]

Welcome! Do you have any specific questions you'd like to ask the community - or you just like to poke around in the Forums to get started?

[ctrav]

At this post just poking around to get a feel for how this forum works.

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

Without seeing any pictures I'm going to offer the idea that the brown spots are caused by watering 2x too many times during the week. My St Augustine lawn is lucky to get watered once a week. Once every 10 - 14 days is more like it. Bermuda is considerably more heat and drought tolerant than my grass, but mine looks pretty good all the time on a lot less water.

Here is my standard blurb on watering. I developed this over the years and after numerous heated discussions on various forums. I might add that I was on the water-everyday side of the fence before I saw the light.

Watering: Deep and infrequent is the mantra for watering. This is for all turf grass all over the place. Deep means 1 inch all at one time. Put some cat food or tuna cans around the yard, and time how long it takes your sprinkler(s) to fill all the cans. Memorize that time. That will be the time you water from now on. My hose, sprinkler and water pressure takes 8 full hours to fill the cans. Your time will likely be less. I like gentle watering. As for watering frequency, that depends on the daytime air temperature. With temps in the 90s, deep water once per week. With temps in the 80s, deep water once every 2 weeks. With temps in the 70s, deep water once every 3 weeks. With temps below 70, deep water once a month. Note that you have to keep up with quickly changing temps in the spring and fall. This deep and infrequent schedule works in Phoenix and in Vermont, so it should work for you. The reason for deep and infrequent is to grow deeper, more drought resistant roots and to allow the soil to dry completely at the surface for several days before watering again. If it rains, reset your calendar to account for the rainfall.

Watering like this might help with your clay situation, too. Deeper watering improved the environment of the soil for the benefit of the beneficial microbes living there. In particular there are a lot of beneficial fungi which will help to soften your soil for you. If you find that you have water penetration issues (i.e. runoff), then water until you get runoff and then stop for 15-30 minutes. Then start again. Repeat until you fill the cans. Take these breaks into account when taking the time to fill the cans. Something else you can try to improve water penetration is to spray the lawn with shampoo at a rate of 3 ounces (or more) per 1,000 square feet. Follow that up with 1/2 inch of water to carry the soap down into the soil. You can use any clear shampoo from Dollar Tree. I treated my lawn in 2012 and it was great until we sold the house in 2016.

Does your TAMU soil test show you the micro nutrients? You might visit the soils forum here at Bestlawn/ATY to see what they can do with a Logan Labs soil test.

[ctrav]

Thanks for the welcome Andy...

Dchall - thanks for the watering advice. I had read this advice from your other posts. So as to comply I shut off my auto rainbird and will set manually once a week. So how do I know when I get runoff (I know this shows just how much of a rookie I am). We just had 4 days of rain (some light and some heavy) about 5 inches. I will not water until next Wednesday which just happens to be my water day. I will do the can test as well to figure out my time to get 1" of water. My lawn primarily has rooters with just a few oscillating ones.

TAMU test (May 2018) seems to be quite different from the Logan Labs ( ordered the basic test). Here is what it tested for - nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, sulfur, calcium, magnesium, sodium and pH

Based on the results I was advised by TAMU I needed .04 lbs nitrate per 1000 sq ft and 2.4 lbs phosphorus per 1000 sq ft. Using there calculator this called for a 0-46-0 blend of fertilizer but I could only find 16-46-0 of which I need 4-5 bags for my size lawn. In addition I had been applying sulfur (3, 50lb bags) twice a year for the hard soil.

I did a previous soil test in Oct of 2017 which included a lot more info (I can post if required). I do plan to use Logan Lab around Feb (assuming this would be a good time). I read on this site that there are stricter requirements now to get my results from LL analyzed. Something like 90 days of being a member (no problem there) and providing feedback (something to that effect so dont quote me). Being new and having so much to learn Im concerned I will not make the cut and this is critical (in my mind) to getting healthy soil!

I had read somewhere else about using baby shampoo on the lawn at the rate you indicate but was not sure if that would really work???

My goals: healthy soil, lush green lawn, increased overall knowledge of what to use

All responses are greatly appreciated!!

[andy10917]

The requirements for Soil Test Interpretations do not go into effect until 2019's Busy Season (March 1, 2019).

Now is an OK time for an initial LL soil test - it's slower now than March-May for soil tests.

[ctrav]

Thats great news Andy...should I send for one now or wait until grass starts to go dormant (Oct-Nov)?

[ctrav]

Hope the added pics work...

[ctrav]

Pic 2 of problem area...

[andy10917]

Thats great news Andy...should I send for one now or wait until grass starts to go dormant (Oct-Nov)?

If you want to get started on the soil this year, a soil test is Step 1.

[ctrav]

I will do the soil test around Oct-Nov time frame since my last fertilizer schedule is in the next 2 weeks and I want to give the application time to dissipate before testing soil (unless Im advised to do differently). First app of pre-emrgiant goes down late September so hopefully that won't effect things...Again much appreciated...

[Fullheadofturf1234]

I’m a cool season guy, but I’d add weed free as one of your goals... I followed a lot from this forum and the lawn looks great... where there aren’t weeds.

Do you have a fertilizer company or do you plan on applying things like preM yourself?

[ctrav]

I plan to apply a preM around Oct time frame. This is my second season with the lawn and did not apply last year and that was a mistake. This past spring I had a ton of weeds to deal with. From what I understand fall and spring are good times for preM so I will do a second app in the Feb/Mar time.

Am I on the right track or do you have another idea? I plan to do another soil analysis early Oct and get that sent in to see what I need to do for the upcoming year....

[ctrav]

Update on a few things:

Grass
Cut the front lawn down to 2" will do the back on Saturday.
Applied a 50# bag of 18-46-0 on the front (7k sq ft) and I have 4 bags to be applied on the back (28Ksq ft). This application of fert was based on my last soil test from Texas A&M last April which showed the need to add phosphorus. I will get a new soil test from LL and submit her in October. No micro nutrients were shown on the TAMU test so the LL test will be good to know.

The next step is to apply a coating of Celsius followed by preM around mid October (open to suggestions on this).

Dchall indicated that baby shampoo may be of help to my clay soil and I'm so tempted to apply but want to wait until after feedback from soil testing. Thanks again Dchall...

Water
Measured the front watering zones. I placed 6 cans down and did each zone separately. After 20 min I got just over 1/4 inch of water. Some had more but this had to be due to overlapping. Then I remembered I had a water analysis done just over a year ago which indicated my water rate was 1/4 inch per zone for 21 minutes of run time. Guess you could say its validated!

So despite the looming spike in my next few water bills I have deleted previous water schedules from my Rainbird system (1 front and 1 back yard). My mental debate is do I go 4 20 min cycles or 3? Yes 4 gives me the inch required for deep watering but it all goes back to the clay soil and if the water will be absorbed or will it go to waste? I have even considered 8 10min cycles but this would require manually setting the system vs automation.

Since this will be a lot more watering is/will it be ok to start at say 2am? I was told once upon a time not to water in the late evening or middle of the night due to fungus promotion. Seems to me the heavens above don't wait for daylight to rain and all is well...

**Lastly I think I will break my lawn care schedule into two separate days vs one day due to the watering requirement. My water days are Wednesday and Saturday. So front lawn cut on Tuesday afternoon with say a 5-10 min watering afterward followed by deep watering on Saturday morning. Back yard would be done on Friday evening with early Saturday watering. THOUGHTS ON THIS PLEASE...

[ctrav]

Finished cutting the front and back lawn down to 2". A lot of the green was cut off but I did put down 1" of water. That took me 4 cycles! How should I proceed now to get my lawn green? I was thinking of using Lesco Chelated Iron Plus 12-0-0. I have never put down the iron and the folks at Lesco thought it was a good idea. Any thoughts on this??

[andy10917]

Until you have your soil test back, resist the temptation to listen to people trying to sell you solutions that you do not know you need. It is the equivalent of having a noise coming from your car, and having a mechanic start changing random parts of the car.

One of the most-often-repeated mantras you'll hear on AroundTheYard is that growing excellent lawns is that lawn care is a marathon and not a sprint. If your soil test is out to LL now, it will be done in a few days, and you will most likely have more work and things to locate shortly than you will want to think about.

[ctrav]

Guess I will just leave the jug on the shelf for now. I did order a soil probe which will be here soon. I won't be doing the soil test until early Oct. My thought process is that whatever the the test shows and is recommended won't be started until next spring. Who knows there could be something to put down as far as soil is concerned but the grass will be going dormant in about 2 months so I wasn't thinking the grass would need anything.

Since I just cut the grass to 2" should I leave it alone or put one last application of anything (looking for advice on this)? Is it ok to put down the preM next month?

[andy10917]

There is only one thing that you can be certain you'll need for Bermuda in the heat - Nitrogen. You can apply Urea (46-0-0) or Ammonium Sulfate (21-0-0) monthly without fear of being a waste. That and some water (I see you're on that pretty well now) and you'll be cursing the mowing.

Unless you don't have the time this year, I'd recommend moving the soil test up to sooner rather than later, especially if you're eager to get going (it seems you are!).

To make sure you get the right Logan Labs test (soils of the DFW region have a particular issue that sometimes requires a slightly different test), what were the pH and Calcium numbers from your prior tests?

[ctrav]

Yes Im eager to get my lawn better and green would be good instead of patches of green and yellowish (hope the better watering will help). If I go with 46-0-0 or 21-0-0 (leaning toward this one from what I have read) I would stop applying when grass goes dormant right? If I apply this won't it skew the soil test? Or should I take the soil sample then put down the fert?

Bought the house in October 2016 and first test from Waypoint in 2017 showed pH 7.8 and Calcium 10174 LB/Acre using M3 method...

Texas A&M report in 2018 showed pH 7.4 and Calcium 7490 ppm (not sure of method).

pH slightly improved as I was told to apply sulfur twice a year which I did. In fact my next application of sulfur will be in October (unless told not to). Sulfur is 90% and I apply 2 50# bags for 30k of lawn.

Texas A&M report had me adding 0-46-0 but that was harder to find so I have applied 18-46-0. I applied 3 50# bags for 30k of lawn.

I hope I answered as needed. Thanks for the feedback!

[andy10917]

OK, we don't even have the test in the mail yet, but we can help...

The soil you have is almost certainly calcareous, and it's probably off-the-scale. Calcareous soils need to be treated and tested differently, and Waypoint didn't do it or flag it in their recommendations. It is possible that Texas A&M did the right test and that would account for the large difference in Calcium reported. When you submit the form that's on the top of the Soils Forum page (read and follow it all!!), make sure to check the box for "Ammonium Acetate testing". This will lower the amount of distortion the Calcium causes, and avoid bad recommendations that are expensive to implement.

You will never overcome the Calcium that you have with Sulfur - in essence you are trying to overcome a mountain of Calcium with a bag or two of Sulfur. It's a fool's errand. You are turning a small amount of the Calcium into Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum), but there is so much Calcium that it is literally waiting for an opportunity to get into solution in your soil. After a few years, you will see a "yo-yo" effect where the pH falls a bit and then rebounds. This up and down can be stressful to the soil and grass, which can lead to weak or diseased grass. And you have to pay for doing that to yourself. Bermuda will grow at a pH of 7.8, so just let it be. The only thing you may need to do is use chelated forms of Iron and other metals, Milorganite (naturally chelated) or the FAS foliar program (read about that in the Articles area).

We'll know far more when your soil test is in and interpreted, but the goal here is to avoid spending money on things that you don't need, or that won't work. Wasted money on 30K is not minor!

And Yes, you stop Urea or Ammonium Sulfate apps when it's time for the lawn to go dormant.