Thoughts on Aeration

[Mofo2713]

How fast are you moving?

I have one of those as well and generally went with the 2-3 tbsp per gallon rate. I move fairly swiftly.

I figure for the $3 more than it cost for the Ortho, this was well worth it. I figure move fast enough to just get everything wet correct? Don't soak the grass but get it wet. Then I was planning on running sprinklers 2-3 minutes per zone afterwards to get the conditioner off the grass blades and down to the soil.

[CTShoreGuy]

Sounds like the BL conditioner or baby shampoo is what I am going to do. cheaper and dont want to risk weeds. What is the mix rate/method of spraying for the baby shampoo? Thanks for the help guys!

I'm with you stygz I'm going with the baby shampoo route. Just picked Johnson and Johnson baby shampoo. My youngets is 6 so I'll have that bottle for a while! I've core areated every other year my first 4 years with the lawn = problems. I then went with liquid aeration (Nature's Garden) That worked OK but was expensive.

I'm going to try the every 2-3 week method. Can't wait to see the looks on my neighbor's faces.

[MorpheusPA]

How fast are you moving?

I have one of those as well and generally went with the 2-3 tbsp per gallon rate. I move fairly swiftly.

I figure for the $3 more than it cost for the Ortho, this was well worth it. I figure move fast enough to just get everything wet correct? Don't soak the grass but get it wet. Then I was planning on running sprinklers 2-3 minutes per zone afterwards to get the conditioner off the grass blades and down to the soil.

Sounds like a plan. Overapplication isn't too much of an issue, so you have the opportunity to find your own correct rate here. Start with 1 tbsp per gallon and see how it goes.

[stygz]

Do I just mix one teaspoon of baby shampoo to one gallon of water? Put it in my sprayer? How much do I spray? Sorry this is really new to me. I may need my hand held through this one . How does the shampoo work? would I do my whole yard or just what I think needs to be done?

[MorpheusPA]

You'd put it in your (hose end) sprayer either undiluted or slightly diluted, and apply at a rate of 2 ounces of the shampoo to however much water per thousand square feet.

For a backpack or wheeled sprayer, use 2 oz to 1 gallon of water and spray per 1,000 square feet.

It's usually best to do the whole lawn and garden area the first few times at least, although I do apply more heavily in my trouble spots.

[stygz]

I have a 2 gallon hand held sprayer. So 4 oz. After spraying just let it sit/dry? Apply once a month?

How does the shampoo break make the soil not as compacted?

[MorpheusPA]

You can water it in if you want, or let rainfall do it for you. Once a month is fine, many apply every 2 weeks.

The shampoo does two things--one, as a surfactant, it makes water penetrate hydrophobic (water repellant) soils much easier. That lasts as long as the shampoo does in that layer.

Over the longer term, it also helps little soil particles stick together the way they want to, with plenty of air and water space between them.

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

About 3 ounces per 1,000 square feet. Measure off your lawn to the nearest 1,000 square feet. If you have 3,000 square feet, put 9 ounces in a hose end sprayer. Spray as evenly as you can until the container is empty.

[Michael Wise]

Over the longer term, it also helps little soil particles stick together the way they want to, with plenty of air and water space between them.

I googled up a good thread on another forum that had an employee from Aquatrols on it.

She said that repeated usage of anionic surfactants could deflocculate soils over time.

How does that mesh with BL soil conditioner or Aerify usage?

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[texasweed]

The trouble with vertical mowing and core aeration - and scooping up all the duff that's left over is that you worked so hard to build the soil...

John who says you have to get rid of the plugs? You can either leave them and they will melt, or put them in a compost pile.

[MorpheusPA]

Over the longer term, it also helps little soil particles stick together the way they want to, with plenty of air and water space between them.

I googled up a good thread on another forum that had an employee from Aquatrols on it.

She said that repeated usage of anionic surfactants could deflocculate soils over time.

How does that mesh with BL soil conditioner or Aerify usage?

[ Post made via iPhone ]

It doesn't, and my experience is exactly the opposite--it flocculates soils. Both lawn and garden show those nice little soil crumbs, and those get more dominant every year.

My garden did reverse a bit this year, but the pH fell to 5.9 with a slight calcium shortage.

Soils flocculate best in a diverse ion environment with both positive and negative ions kicking around. The positive ions are supplied by soil calcium, potassium, iron, and boron. Negative ions include some types of nitrogen, sulfates, soil conditioner, and the like.

There's a definite preference for some positive ions (calcium, most notably), with magnesium tending to deflocculate soils.

The stuff won't work miracles in a tight sodic or magnesium-heavy soil, but it'll still help.

[ars2210]

You mentioned White Rain ingredients changing. I got some equate Baby Wash & Shampoo. It was about $3 for 28 ounces. Tell me if this ingredient list does not meet the higher quality ones in what you would ideally use: water, cocamidopropyl betaine, sodium laureth sulfate, PEG-80 sorbitan laurate, sodium trideceth sulfate, etc. I know I had read about SLS and thought it was good to have, and was the reason I bought this. Is this decent stuff??

[stygz]

I was going to ask the same on the Equate brand.

[MorpheusPA]

You mentioned, White Rain ingredients changing. I got some equate Baby Wash & Shampoo. It was about $3 for 28 ounces. Tell me if this ingredient list does not meet the higher quality ones in what you would ideally use: water, cocamidopropyl betaine, sodium laureth sulfate, PEG-80 sorbitan laurate, sodium trideceth sulfate, etc. I know I had red about SLS and thought it was good to have, and was the reason I bought this. Is this decent stuff??

That's perfect. Water is water, of course. cocamidopropyl betaine is a surfactant, SLS is a surfactant, PEG-80 is a surfactant, sorbitan laurate is a sweetening agent, and the rest is so low on the list it doesn't matter.

If you want to play with some really stupid people's minds, search each of those components and find all the "this stuff will kill you" pages. Then ask if they have scientific proof and a list of the dead.

All are harmless to you in reasonable quantities, so although I wouldn't drink the stuff (it'd probably give you a bit of an upset stomach), it's fine for you, the kids, and immediate exposure after use on the lawn.

[Mofo2713]

How fast are you moving?

I have one of those as well and generally went with the 2-3 tbsp per gallon rate. I move fairly swiftly.

I figure for the $3 more than it cost for the Ortho, this was well worth it. I figure move fast enough to just get everything wet correct? Don't soak the grass but get it wet. Then I was planning on running sprinklers 2-3 minutes per zone afterwards to get the conditioner off the grass blades and down to the soil.

Sounds like a plan. Overapplication isn't too much of an issue, so you have the opportunity to find your own correct rate here. Start with 1 tbsp per gallon and see how it goes.

This works just as well in the flower beds as well? I'm assuming it won't affect the plants/shrubs by getting the BLSC sprayed on it?

[John_in_SC]

Getting rid of the stuff was more a comment about dethatching/vertical mowing... I suppose I would rather just leave it be... Call me Lazy and all....

Morph's comment regarding soil chemical balance is still right on... Wetting agents won't do anything about a mineral imbalance or a deficiency in the soil that would result in hard, infertile soil...

They just tend to allow water to soak in better...

Personally, I ended up going with a granular product... I went with Cascade Plus 16P... but I also got a couple bags of generic Southern Ag wetting agent product to try out too - because it costs <50% the price of the Cascade Plus.... I like granular - because it's supposed to release slow over 4-6 months... and because it's easier for me to deal with 15,000 sq-ft on my spreader than with a hose end sprayer....

So far, I am noticing some pretty big benefits....
The only places I am seeing dry spots are:
A 6' square over the septic tank where the soil is shallow
and over a huge gravel bar on a south facing hill top... but both of those places are holding out much longer than they used to... They both used to hold about 3 days... I am at 1.5 weeks now, and had to water the septic tank grass yesterday, and am setting out the sprinkler on the gravel bed today...

The primary benefit of a wetting agent ON A SOIL THAT NEEDS IT is that Irrigation/Rain works like it's supposed to! Deep and Infrequent watering is all it needs.. compared to last year.. when I would water "deep and infrequent"... then water the whole thing "Deep and infrequent" AGAIN 3-days later.... and still find the soil 2" down was dry...

But... It also seems like fertilizer is lasting longer.... where by the end of the month - the Bermuda would already be turning apple green... It's still dark green from my 1st app this season....

Thanks

[MorpheusPA]

This works just as well in the flower beds as well? I'm assuming it won't affect the plants/shrubs by getting the BLSC sprayed on it?

Yep, I use it liberally in the gardens as well, including all manner of shrubs including roses and azaleas.

[RockinMyLawn]

Baby shampoo is really just fine, however, and that's great if you don't feel like playing Mad Scientist and mixing your own. I like being the Mad Scientist, but many people don't care for it.

Most really inexpensive shampoos are also just fine. I used to recommend White Rain, but the formula's changed and I haven't found the list of new ingredients just yet. I'm sure it's still OK. Shampoos will average a bit more expensive per ounce than the homemade BL Soil Conditioner, but the premium may be worth it to you to avoid amassing separate chemicals, storing, and mixing them yourself.

Hi Morph - does this philosophy still hold today: shampoos are just good as your home brew?

I'm just getting into the soil conditioning due diligence for my transition zone lawn.