Cabinet maker sawdust

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agn015
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Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by agn015 » May 4th, 2021, 4:57 pm

This year I’m planning to start spreading saw dust on my yard. I hope it will flow though my earth way spreader but if not I guess I’ll just fling it around by hand :aikido:

I already found two cabinet makers who will let me have some :yahoo: The first said his dust is never treated but may have a small percentage of that pressed cardboard-like backing material mixed in, which I’d bet is no big deal. Do you see that there would be any problems using that kind of material on the lawn?

The second said his wood also isn’t treated but sometimes has a finish on it when he cuts. Should I steer away from dust that may have a surface finish mixed in? Or should I ask him for any specific details on the finish first? Perhaps water based finishes are safer than oil based for soil life? Or would it be best to just stick with my first “cleaner” source?

I’m really excited to build up the herd and see the impact of using a real layer of sawdust rather than a couple bags of pine pellets!

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andy10917
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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by andy10917 » May 4th, 2021, 5:49 pm

Lucky you!!!!!

I can only think of one potential issue, and even that would require laziness on your part. If applied too thickly in one spot, it can form a water-repellent layer in that spot - so don't do that.

PS: do not ask the question of exactly how much is "too much". I have never tested it and I'm certain nobody else spent their day testing wet sawdust. Just be reasonable.

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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by MorpheusPA » May 4th, 2021, 5:57 pm

The pressed backing is probably fine, just find out what it is. If, as I suspect, it's just pressed wood dust, then use it. Or pressed cardboard bits. No problem.

As for the finish, again, find out what it is. Linseed oil, most other natural plant oils, no problem. Soybean oil? Great. :-) These decay easily. Most natural varnishes will actually decay just fine. Believe it or not, water-based acrylics won't decay, but natural oils are not a problem at all (acrylics are a plastic that are diluted in water and my favorite protective varnish is an acrylic--although it's not rated for outside use). If you're not sure, just ask and somebody will look it up for you.

Pressure-treated woods are a definite no-no.

Sawdust's not magic but, like leaves, once things get going you can pour it on pretty fast and let the fungi go to town on it. And you sure can't beat free. And as Andy noted, just mind the amounts you apply. I've gone to 30 pounds per thousand square feet with no issues, but never tried past that. I can't imagine that a hundred pounds per thousand would present an issue, however; it takes far more than that for it to start refusing water.

If you note yellowing out, it means the sawdust is sucking up nitrogen faster than it can be supplied. That can be reversed by feeding with any high-nitrogen fertilizer at the bag rate, which will also drastically increase the decay rate of the sawdust while it lasts in the pile. Alternately, and for longer-lasting decay, use a high-nitrogen organic (like soy) at 15-20 pounds per thousand. It'll stick around longer.

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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by agn015 » May 6th, 2021, 10:39 pm

Thanks Andy, I hope I don’t get too carried away. I’ll plan to start slowly and ramp up as the herd develops an appetite for the stuff. I haven’t picked up any dust just yet but hopefully I get a call soon.

Thank you for all of those details Morph! I suspect the backing is fine too. It looked like cardboard at least but I’ll confirm the next time I speak with him.

That’s interesting that high N organics (like soy) will slow the decay. Is that because the herd now has to digest the sawdust in addition to the soy?

I had a chance to talk to the second cabinet maker and learned that he uses prefinished plywood manufactured by Columbia Forest Products. I searched their website and found a few different options for prefinished plywood.

The details for their “CustomColors™”, “FirstStep®”, and “UV Wood” types of panels are below. Does it sound like the dust from these would be safe to apply to a lawn? I’m beginning to shy away from this source as I see acrylic and water based listed. Do you agree?

CustomColors™ is pre-applied, UV cured, 100% solid stain. It uses a UV cured Urethane Modified Acrylic, 100% solid stains.

FirstStep® is a pre-primed, ready-to-use hardwood plywood panel. It uses a cross-linked water-based primer.

Columbia’s UV Wood panels feature a durable, clear, epoxy acrylic coat.

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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by MorpheusPA » May 7th, 2021, 2:17 am

Oh. Dear.

"I’m beginning to shy away from this source as I see acrylic and water based listed. Do you agree?"

Totally agreed.

CustomColors would be flat out. It's an acrylic--a plastic. I paint with the stuff and varnish with it as well. Definitely not what you want in your soil (although...well, amounts are not huge, but it won't decay).

Columbia's UV Wood panels are also out; epoxy acrylic is even worse. I make stuff out of epoxy acrylic.

I can't give a final judgement on the FirstStep but my initial guess is "no." Somebody tried to sell me on a plastic by whining that it was "made from natural oil" and therefore it was OK to use in a soil. Petroleum is a natural oil. Plastics can be made from processed soybean. I can read sales-speak, my eyes work, and I can see when wool is being pulled over them. Acrylics are technically "water-based" in that they dissolve in water, can be cleaned up with water...you get the idea.

But since I'm going to guess he doesn't segregate the sawdust, you couldn't be certain of the source anyway.

On the other hand, I'm going to guess his woodwork is gorgeous, durable, and not going to warp easily in humid conditions...

"That’s interesting that high N organics (like soy) will slow the decay. Is that because the herd now has to digest the sawdust in addition to the soy?"

Other way around, really; sawdust, leaves, and high-carbon, low-nitrogen items tend to decay very slowly. High-nitrogen, low-carbon items tend to decay quickly (but leave less mass behind at the end of the decay process than high-carbon items do). However, very low nitrogen items, like sawdust or leaves, used very heavily, can get cloggy and take ages to decay. Adding soy to the mix adds nitrogen, which accelerates the decay cycle.

It's like having a compost bin with too many browns. It stays cold, composts slowly, but you end up with a large percentage of the mass left. My mixed pile might hit 150 degrees, but it'll lose half its mass by the time it completes composting. The bacteria eat it.


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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by agn015 » May 10th, 2021, 4:49 pm

Thank you Morph! I’ll pass on the Columbia products guy, at least until we decide to redo our kitchen! Sounds like he has the potential to do some quality work.

I picked up two large garbage bags full of saw dust from the other source today. I filled up one load in the spreader and it flowed okay. The agitator in my earth way is broken so I had to shake the spreader around quite a bit and it never flowed smoothly but it did go down on the ground pretty evenly. Much more evenly than the Starbucks grounds that I fling all over the place.

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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by MorpheusPA » May 10th, 2021, 7:32 pm

Cool! Now you can watch it sit there and do a whole lot of nothing. Suddenly, it'll seem like it just...disappears. And the next load won't do that, because the decay fungi are now there and will activate fast.

These are the same fungi that will eat leaves, so you'll note those go away faster in fall as well.

And, as always, adding a touch of N, organic or synthetic, will accelerate decay as well.

agn015
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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by agn015 » May 10th, 2021, 7:45 pm

I’m excited! I’ve got my beer and snacks ready to watch the show!

I do get a lot of leaves in the fall too so it will be nice to see them disappear a little faster.

7 days ago I put down just over 30lbs/k of cracked corn and a little urea. Maybe that will be enough to help speed up the process.

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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by MorpheusPA » May 10th, 2021, 8:41 pm

It will, and it'll also prime the bacterial and fungal processes a little bit. Mulch mowing your grass atop the sawdust also helps; mulched grasses are about 4% nitrogen by (dry) weight. And the moisture in the cut grass helps, too.

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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by gordon » May 13th, 2021, 9:26 pm

Tractor Supply sells pelletized bedding 40lb bag for $5.99. I used it last year, although it went through the spreader a little slowly.

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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by MorpheusPA » May 14th, 2021, 1:43 am

Equine Pine is great stuff and I recommend that too. But it's not free...

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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » May 14th, 2021, 12:17 pm

Years ago, dare I say a decade or so ago, there was a woodworker on the compost forum at gardenweb. He and I had a lengthy discussion about his use of sawdust in his garden. I tried to warn him away from it but he'd been using it for 15 years already, so no sense in my warning him. He claimed his hard clay soil had become soft enough he could plunge his arm in up to his elbow. I suspect that meant he could dig in 4 inches down and then do a little horizontal drilling to his elbow. In any case he was convincing. After so many years he said the sawdust disappeared in a week, because the soil had such a high population of wood fungus spores. Anyway, hoping to encourage you to go for it.

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Re: Cabinet maker sawdust

Post by agn015 » May 24th, 2021, 1:20 pm

gordon wrote:
May 13th, 2021, 9:26 pm
Tractor Supply sells pelletized bedding 40lb bag for $5.99. I used it last year, although it went through the spreader a little slowly.
Yes, I’ve used that before but as Morph said it’s not free so the price quickly adds up when I’m trying to cover 12k sqft. The pellets do flow through the spreader wonderfully and they aren’t dusty at all.
Dchall_San_Antonio wrote:
May 14th, 2021, 12:17 pm
Anyway, hoping to encourage you to go for it.
Thank you for the encouragement Dchall! I’ve seen you post that story before and it’s one of the reasons I started exploring sawdust. I just spread my second full garbage bag today and so far so good 😊

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