Increasing organic content

[bernstem]

The drum spreaders work great for Peat Moss, but are not very good for compost in my experience. Compost is often too wet or too coarse to drop through the grate. Your best bet for compost is to spread by hand (wheelbarrow, Pitchfork/shovel and rake) or use a compost spreader like an EcoLawn topdresser or manure spreader. Personally, I hire out the compost topdressing it is so much work. I have 10,000 square feet of lawn for reference. It takes three guys about 6 hours to spread 7 yards.

[TimmyG]

There's a local company that has one of the manual compost spreaders I can rent for $25 (drum with wire grid). Is that probably my best option to do the spreading?

Even Home Depot properly calls the drum spreader a peat moss spreader. Peat moss is fine and dry. The wire-mesh drum probably works great for that. But 1/2" (or worse) screened compost that is quite moist? Forget about it. You won't find any success stories on the ATY forums about spreading yards of compost with a drum spreader.

Besides the large topdressing machines that few professionals use, the only homeowner accessible contraption that I read worked well for spreading compost is the Newer Spreader. Not exactly cheap new at $1100+, but you can occasionally find one used on craigslist if you're willing to search a wide area. I bought one used for $250 in south CT, which was quite a drive from the MA/NH border. It worked great for spreading wet compost, but I was still left with a lot of raking to do.

[Tsmith]

There's a local company that has one of the manual compost spreaders I can rent for $25 (drum with wire grid). Is that probably my best option to do the spreading?

Even Home Depot properly calls the drum spreader a peat moss spreader. Peat moss is fine and dry. The wire-mesh drum probably works great for that. But 1/2" (or worse) screened compost that is quite moist? Forget about it. You won't find any success stories on the ATY forums about spreading yards of compost with a drum spreader.

I spread two yards of compost with the drum spreader from Home Depot on Saturday. It certainly wasnt easy but i was able to spread it.

It is perfect for peat moss though but plan on a workout if you're spreading compost.

[TimmyG]

I spread two yards of compost with the drum spreader from Home Depot on Saturday. It certainly wasnt easy but i was able to spread it.

I stand corrected! Good to know.

[redcoat]

thanks...not sure why I'm getting notified on this thread over and over today!

[Tsmith]

thanks...not sure why I'm getting notified on this thread over and over today!

If you subscribed to the thread you will usually get notified whenever someone replies


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[redcoat]

Understand...I just realized this spread onto 2 pages, and it was still linking me to page 1 (and didn't see the link). Seems like the bigger rental places should start renting top dressing machines There's someone a ways from me who would charge $600 for spreading 10 yards with his...

[redcoat]

I topdressed with 10 yards of compost a few times using a Newer Spreader, but even that required days of raking. And that was on a small portion of my lawn. The vast majority of my lawn where I didn't topdress kept up pace in improvement over several years

So....$1million question: is it worth topdressing? Does it depend on how bad your soil is? Type of grass being grown? It'll likely cost me around $500 for 1 yd/1000sq ft, installed (10,000 sq ft total)

[TimmyG]

It's going to depend on your goals, your budget, your commitment, and how desperate your soil is for OM. If you're looking to raise your OM by 1% or more in the next couple years, you really have no choice...and that's with multiple applications per year.

[redcoat]

I don't think I can afford many applications...maybe 1 now and then when 1 when I overseed in the fall? Was interested in your situtation with 2.5% and that you didn't seem to notice a huge difference in the areas that didn't. And if I use plenty of Milorganite maybe I can get by with just those 2 /shrug

[Tony alony]

I don't think I can afford many applications...maybe 1 now and then when 1 when I overseed in the fall? Was interested in your situtation with 2.5% and that you didn't seem to notice a huge difference in the areas that didn't. And if I use plenty of Milorganite maybe I can get by with just those 2 /shrug

redcoat, another way to look at your decision, as you stated above; "in a business enviornment"--would be to accept your efforts as a net gain outcome. http://www.businessdictionary.com/defin ... -gain.html
You can predict next years results from this years overall performance by keeping good records.
Do whatever it is that you think that would most benefit the lawn, all at once or slowly over time.

[Tsmith]

increasing your OM is not a fast process so I would suggest add what your wallet and body can take to your plan every year and continue to get soil tests...mulch your clippings whenever you can, mulch leaves in the fall, steal some if you have to, spread componst when you can, etc

one yard per 1000 sqft would be a lot to do at one time and would really hurt either your back or your wallet

its not a fast process, my OM was 2.7 last year and Id be thrilled if i somehow got it over 3 now,,,should find out in a few days

[andy10917]

I don't think I can afford many applications...maybe 1 now and then when 1 when I overseed in the fall? Was interested in your situtation with 2.5% and that you didn't seem to notice a huge difference in the areas that didn't. And if I use plenty of Milorganite maybe I can get by with just those 2 /shrug

A bit of tough love here - you are a very-prolific poster here and on other forums that you have participated in. "/shrug" is OK and your right, but the lawn and soil react better to quantities of (often free) leaves and organic matter more than they do about the quantity of postings and questions about the latest miracle-in-a-bag fad. Steady and consistent wins this battle every single time, and it doesn't have to be about money.

[redcoat]

Hi Timmy, thanks for the response. I was a little perplexed, too, to be honest. I genuinely am sincere in my desire to learn and apply. I apologize if I've asked too many questions, but I find it a steep learning curve to adequately understand things enough to be able to move forward. I am grateful for the help, and as I've posted elsewhere, have been struggling to connect all the dots at times. I really do want to understand the details so I don't make mistakes that are hard to rectify. I put a lot of effort into my redo last fall (with very little experience) and it hasn't turned out well. So I am trying to catch up with the very knowledgable people here, in time to rescue what grass I do have. Seeing poa and quackgrass popping up everywhere, discovering for the first time what they are and how hard they are to get rid of, and the existing grass seemingly not very healthy, plus realizing I've already made mistakes and should have laid down pre-M several weeks ago, has added to the urgency and the influx of questions.

Perhaps my /shrug was misinterpreted - I merely meant that I didn't know if I could get by without compost and if just pounding the milorganite would be effective (and less pricey) in the long run. If I had an abundance of funds, I would just pile on the compost at $500 a pop, but unfortunately I don't have that to invest in my yard at the moment. I am still hoping to top dresses this weekend to get things primed, and maybe in the fall when I do a probably heavy overseeding to help the new seed. I am seriously considering how much milorganite I can afford to throw down between times to promote the Herd (I didn't even understand there *was* a herd until I found this forum).

I was actually at the store tonight purchasing the Dimension when I posted about if it was the correct one, and I'm ordering Tenacity tonight. I'm gonna hit up Home Depot if they'll price match Milorganite in the upcoming sale. I"m gonna hit the Quackgrass with Ornamec as soon as the rain clears.

Hopefully that shows that I'm serious about following the advice which I'm receiving, and very grateful for.

[TimmyG]

I merely meant that I didn't know if I could get by without compost and if just pounding the milorganite would be effective (and less pricey) in the long run. If I had an abundance of funds, I would just pile on the compost at $500 a pop, but unfortunately I don't have that to invest in my yard at the moment.

Don't be misled. Compost at any price is still WAY cheaper than Milorganite for increasing OM, like an order of magnitude or more cheaper. But compost isn't a fertilizer whereas Milorganite is. Think of it this way, no matter how much Milorganite you spread this year, it won't add up to being a half inch thick.

If that $500 for 10 cu yds of compost did indeed include labor ("installed"), that ain't bad. Except for free compost from the town, it'll usually run you $25/yd or more, so that means you're paying less than $250 to have someone else spread those 10 cu yds. I wish we had LCOs with topdressers in this area and that they were that cheap to hire.

[andy10917]

How much organic matter are you figuring might be in a 36-lb bag of Milorganite spread over 2500 sq ft? How much in that fully-composted yard of material?

Whenever you think you have found a shortcut, say this out loud to yourself: "there is no magic". Do you really think that you're the first person here that wishes that a 36 lb bag could avoid spreading a cubic yard of compost?

[LoneRanger]

Do you really think that you're the first person here that wishes that a 36 lb bag could avoid spreading a cubic yard of compost?

LOL! I thought I was. I've still got 150 bags of Encap-compost sprinkles/icing to go on the 25yds I tilled in.

Redcoat, relax. Take a sip and keep reading. There always still time and in the end it will be cheaper with the knowledge you gain here. You'll have to suffer a bit, but it will be the best for your sanity and wallet.

[LoneRanger]

Work on the soil interpretation and milo and mulch. Topdress if you like. You can always do a proper reno later and add copious amounts of organic matter then.

[TimmyG]

WTFJH! There was a post from redcoat when I replied.

I've got ya somewhat covered.

in TimmyG's situation (which I requoted above) topdressing didn't seem to result in much difference over the area that wasn't top dressed.

Probably because even three applications of compost is only a start...but it is a start. Now, the areas that I regraded with high-OM loam...those clearly had a leg up. But most importantly, I made far greater contributions and improvements than just compost to all areas, so all areas improved significantly from where I started.

This, then, was the root of my $1m question - at this stage of the game, with the resources at my disposal, am I better off using compost, or focusing on feeding the microherd with organic fertilizer intensely - rather than maybe how it was interpreted on face value.

As many have said already, it's not a race. Stop trying to decide everything now or even this year. Choose something and go with it. See how it works out. See if it meets your objectives. See if it makes you happy. Make changes each year based on the previous year's performance.

Me? I'd push on the organic fertilizer rather than compost topdressing as budget and time allow. I learned what works for me, over years, not by asking questions but by doing and observing.

[ENVY23]

Here's some advice that I've learned firsthand: Things get a lot easier when you treat lawn care as a hobby, instead of as work. It's a lot less stressful when you do it because you enjoy it, instead of doing it with a sense of urgency to have a pristine lawn as quickly as possible.