Unhealthy lawn

[LeeG]

Greetings - my name is Lee. I'm a 67 year old homeowner in a suburb west of Boston.

This summer will be the 25th summer we've lived in this house and been responsible for the large lawn. The seller (25 yrs ago) used chemicals, the lawn was a "Scotts lawn" when we first moved here. We stopped using chemicals immediately, and began alternatively to maintain the lawn ourselves or hire supposedly "natural" lawn care companies. Both failed - the lawn care companies take a cookie-cutter approach that just didn't work for my lawn. The company I used last summer was on a neighbor's recommendation, but they turned out to be unresponsive, and I'm disinclined to use them again this year. And, my own efforts did not prevent an unhealthy, weed-infested lawn from developing.

I would like to try, once again, to "do it myself." Someone referred me to this site, and I'm hoping readers can give me some guidance. I will add: I would love to find someone in my area that could just "consult" on the lawn for me - look at it, tell me what they think I should do, discuss this with me .... Happy to pay a reasonable fee for consulting services!

Thanks, Lee

[andy10917]

From your location just west of Boston, is a trip to Quincy possible to get one of the best buys of natural fertilizer in the country? Do you have a truck, pickup or van?

[LeeG]

Quincy is an easy drive. I've discussed my lawn on the Bogleheads website, and someone there sent me this PM:

Search for Bay state fertilizer (which is essentially milorganite) produced by MWRA. The facility is in Quincy, which is where I went to buy it. The person who is responsible for selling it to consumers is a little hard to get hold of, and only accepts checks. On another forum (aroundtheyard) they have posted some instructions on how to get hold of the person, how to drive to MWRA - as it’s a warehouse where you pick it up. It was not that big a hassle I just remember he didn’t pick up the phone the first time I called, so I wanted you to be aware.

I suspect this is what you have in mind? But no, I don't have a vehicle that will hold a lot of this - biggest vehicle I have is a small SUV. I wouldn't know how much milorganite to put on the lawn, or how to apply it.

I know I'm a total newbie on this site, but I need an overall plan - or advice on where to find one. I've read the books that say to top dress the lawn, and I've done that. I've seeded the lawn in the Fall. I've treated the lawn with milky spore grub control. I mow the lawn myself with a push/reel mower, and leave the cuttings on the lawn. I've studied Dick Raymond's book, "Natural Lawn Care" (copyright 1993), and tried to follow his advice, but without any real success.

Haven't used any natural fertilizer or "preemergent" weed control stuff, if there is such a thing that isn't poison. Won't be long before I have a thousand dandillions in the yard, and broadleaf weeds ....

[LeeG]

Follow up to my last post - I'd assumed Milorganite was a generic, name but I see that it's a trademarked product name, with a website and a store locater. Using that, all the garden stores around me carry this product - no need to go to Quincy, is there? Site says 36 pd bag for 2500 s.f. I have around 3500 sf ...

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

You should be getting excellent results if 1) you are watering deeply and infrequently, 2) you are mowing at the mower's highest setting, and 3) your lawn care people are fertilizing. Note that most of the lawn care effort is in your hands already. Fertilizing is the least important part. Doing that part wrong is much less important than doing the other two parts wrong.

I'm not familiar with Raymond's book, but a lot has happened since the mid 90s that would not be reflected in his book. The big thing is DNA testing of actual dirt. Without going into a lot of detail, what has changed is that compost is no longer the king of organic gardening. Modern organic fertilizers now contain grains like alfalfa meal, soybean meal, corn meal, flax, etc., as well as animal byproducts (mainly feathers and chicken sheet). You can buy most of these materials at your local feed store for a fraction (about 1/7) of the cost of a commercially bagged organic fertilizer. So I'm going to politely suggest that you put down Raymond's book and get your help here or almost anywhere else besides a book that old. I have been using corn meal and more recently, alfalfa pellets, as my fertilizer of choice since 2002. The application rate is 15-20 pounds per 1,000 square feet.

Watering is the single most important part of getting a nice lawn. Here's more...Watering: Deep and infrequent is the mantra for watering. This is for all turf grass all over the place. Deep means 1 inch all at one time. Put some cat food or tuna cans around the yard, and time how long it takes your sprinkler(s) to fill all the cans. Memorize that time. That will be the time you water from now on. My hose, sprinkler and water pressure takes 8 full hours to fill the cans. Your time will likely be less. I like gentle watering. As for watering frequency, that depends on the daytime air temperature. With temps in the 90s, deep water once per week. With temps in the 80s, deep water once every 2 weeks. With temps in the 70s, deep water once every 3 weeks. With temps below 70, deep water once a month. Note that you have to keep up with quickly changing temps in the spring and fall. This deep and infrequent schedule works in Phoenix and in Vermont, so it should work for you. The reason for deep and infrequent is to grow deeper, more drought resistant roots and to allow the soil to dry completely at the surface for several days before watering again. If it rains, reset your calendar to account for the rainfall.

How important is proper watering? Here's a picture of MorpheusPA's lawn taken in mid July of 2010. All the yards are Kentucky bluegrass.



Morph (the green one) waters deeply and infrequently while his neighbors water daily.

[CCtexas]

I am a total believer now, thanks to DCHall! Last year at this time we had to dig up the fungus infected St Augustine in the front yard and replace it with more SA sod. So, it lasted awhile. Lol That same area started dying again this fall so by January...feeling frustrated and desperate..I started looking on line for other solutions and found posts by Hall -- I'm in Corpus-- and I told my husband-- we are going to put down cornmeal. He thought I was crazy and he even spread it after dark because he didn't want our picky neighbor--with whom we share a lot-line --know what he was spreading! Well, within a week or two the grass -- which was almost dead again-- turned rich green, filled in, and is now thicker than ever!! And we've been here since 2000 always struggling to keep the front yard going!!! The turnaround is so dramatic that our neighbor asked us what we were doing! Lol!! So, now, we have used several rounds of cornmeal since end of January and we've been watering correctly--with temps finally reaching 90's this week ...my question is... Should we do some alfalfa for the Memorial Day feeding? I've read that you say it is more nutritious than the cornmeal. I can get alfalfa pellets but cannot find soybean meal. Thank you!!

[HoosierLawnGnome]

Quincy is an easy drive. I've discussed my lawn on the Bogleheads website, and someone there sent me this PM:

Search for Bay state fertilizer (which is essentially milorganite) produced by MWRA. The facility is in Quincy, which is where I went to buy it. The person who is responsible for selling it to consumers is a little hard to get hold of, and only accepts checks. On another forum (aroundtheyard) they have posted some instructions on how to get hold of the person, how to drive to MWRA - as it’s a warehouse where you pick it up. It was not that big a hassle I just remember he didn’t pick up the phone the first time I called, so I wanted you to be aware.

I suspect this is what you have in mind? But no, I don't have a vehicle that will hold a lot of this - biggest vehicle I have is a small SUV. I wouldn't know how much milorganite to put on the lawn, or how to apply it.

I know I'm a total newbie on this site, but I need an overall plan - or advice on where to find one. I've read the books that say to top dress the lawn, and I've done that. I've seeded the lawn in the Fall. I've treated the lawn with milky spore grub control. I mow the lawn myself with a push/reel mower, and leave the cuttings on the lawn. I've studied Dick Raymond's book, "Natural Lawn Care" (copyright 1993), and tried to follow his advice, but without any real success.

Haven't used any natural fertilizer or "preemergent" weed control stuff, if there is such a thing that isn't poison. Won't be long before I have a thousand dandillions in the yard, and broadleaf weeds ....

DChall is right on. If you want to take this on, do it the right way - and get the basic blocking and tackling done right. Di-hydrogen oxide is the most important fertilizer!

Fertilizing organically has a lot of options too. Milorganite is a great option too, the WI equivalent of Baystate - but approved for inter-state sale.

On the other hand, getting rid of the plants you don't want (weeds) for the ones you do want (turfgrass) is a very labor intensive process of manual removal on a large lawn, without the use of modern herbicides.

If you have August National Masters expectations for turf but want to limit the tools you use to what was available 300-400 years ago, it's going to be difficult to achieve.

It's a lot easier to maintain a lawn that already has a thick canopy of desirable grasses without chemicals than it is to get it there in the first place. If you are really going for that manicured turf look, then you might consider getting it where you want it with the assistance of minimal herbicides applied in appropriate amounts, then maintaining it from there by hand pulling.

I see stuff like corn meal advertised as an organic pre-emergent but that's bupkis. That stuff is more like fertilizer. Now, maybe if you cover the soil in 4 inches of it will it prevent any weeds from germinating on the soil it covers, but it isn't going to prevent weeds like what comes to mind when most think of as a pre-emergent

Tenacity is a herbicide that was developed after noticing that a certain plant didn't let other plants grow around it. The AI was extracted and made more concentrated etc - and voila - Syngenta has a new herbicide it sells. Is it natural? What's your definition of natural? Everything we see was made from something else - unless it is supernatural.

And, like morpheus picture above - too much di-hydrogen oxide applied improperly or in the wrong amounts - will kill your turf just like a blanket spray of glyphosate.

So, my intent is to make you think about what your goals are and be realistic if you aren't going to use chemicals. Certainly nothing wrong with that - I just don't think people understand how difficult it is to have modern golf course quality turf and do it without any herbicides. We're talking someone walking and pulling weeds every day during the growing season on a large lawn.

[turf_toes]

CcTexas,

In case you don’t know, Di-hydrogen oxide == water.

I like and respect David and I know he is a big proponent of Cornmeal instead of fungicides.

But I’m unconvinced. Cornmeal is a very mild organic fertilizer. But the fungicide claims are, in my opinion, unconvincing.

There was a single study (Texas A&M, I think) showing it had some antifungal properties on PEANUTS.

That study hasn’t been replicated and was fairly old when I first heard of it back in 2005.

There hasn’t been a single follow up study and none at all on turf grass. I know some will argue that is because the lawncare companies can’t make money from cornmeal. But that argument leaves aside The development of Tenacity, for example (a herbicide based on compounds produced by the Bottlebrush plant.)

You aren’t doing any harm with cornmeal. But it’s probably not doing much as an antifungal either.

I know we will have folks chime in that it works for them. But unless it’s been tested in a controlled environment where other reasonable explanations have been ruled out, you can call me unconvinced.

This is probably worth a read:

http://gardenprofessors.com/cornmeal-myth-busted/

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

Awwww, turf toes, turf toes, turf toes. We had been been friends for so long.

I get it. After 16 years of promoting corn meal on this and other forums, and after reading replies back, I cannot claim the cornmeal works universally. But if I am reading the replies completely and correctly, I will claim that it works universally on St Augustine. I have used it successfully all those years, and testimonials like CCtexas above are numerous. My lawn had a circle spot about 10 feet across at the beginning of this year. The area appeared at the end of the growing season last year. I had hoped it would heal itself over the winter, but it did not. Applied cornmeal and it is completely cleared up. I cannot explain why professors of horticulture cannot replicate results that so many people are getting, but I don't think they are trying that hard. Linda Chalker-Scott has become famous for making up myths and then debunking them. For the one she brought in Dr Jerry Parsons from TAMU. He is famous among the organic community in Texas for hating all things organic despite the results he sees on his own lawn and garden.

HoosierLawnGnome mentioned corn meal as a preemergent. I'm not sure if that was a typo or a mistake. Ordinary corn meal has never been claimed to be a preemergent. That was corn GLUTEN meal. But he's right. it doesn't work as a preemergent. I used it every month for one season and I had as many weeds as ever.

[CCtexas]

My yard and my next-door-neighbor's yard continues to be the only thick green lawns on my street...and we are currently suffering a moderate drought. Just applied my FHS--Memorial Day dose of Aunt Jemima (had to go to 3 HEBs to find it bc they can't keep it on the shelf--not sure why lol). The neighbor uses MANY chemicals to achieve the same green St. Augustine--ours has never been on par with his until this year! So, we shall see and will keep updating reporting what happens...God forbid we get a hurricane. Btw, I'm from Indiana--went to Purdue. I never worried about my yard there, but it's a different story down here.

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

CC, welcome to Texas and to the forums. Not to digress too long from this topic, but last year my wife and sister bought a condo as a rental in Rockport. We just finished remodeling in early July before Harvey. Now we have a shell waiting for the contractors to finish the exterior reframing to start the interiors.

You might look for corn meal at a feed store. Call ahead to check price and availability. You want ORDINARY corn meal, as you know. The dealers try to sell corn GLUTEN meal for $30 instead of corn meal for $8. The deep and infrequent watering advice, above, applies to you in Corpus, too.

[CCtexas]

Oh wow--I am sorry to hear that about your condo in Rockport...they really got hammered. One of our friends here in Corpus retired and built a new home in Rockport just before Harvey. He and his wife had to relocate to a garage apartment in CC and are still there...Insurance says his house will need to be leveled. So sad.
On another note, we haven't watered in 9 days...lawn is still green (lol)..we will water that inch this week.

[CCtexas]

Btw, our yard only got about 3-4 inches of rain from good ol' Harvey...we are about 40 miles SW of RP. We dodged a bullet that day.