Varying Organic Fertilizers

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adaam_93
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Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by adaam_93 » May 25th, 2018, 12:17 am

Is there any value in varying the organic fertilizer that is used on a lawn?

I plan to primarily use Milorganite due to cost and availability, but would doing an application of Ringer and/or Espoma be beneficial?

Also, would any of the three, Milo, Ringer, and Espoma, be best used for a particular application on the schedule? Or are they all roughly the same, at least in that respect?

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by andy10917 » May 25th, 2018, 12:53 pm

If you're going to "change it up", don't spend time looking at brand names - locate a place that has Soy Bean Meal and other real organic sources. No need paying for pretty bags and someone's profits.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » May 25th, 2018, 3:33 pm

Agree with Andy. Read the labels on Espoma and Ringer. You'll see they amount to a lot of ground up grains with some animal byproducts. The animal byproducts are often feather meal, sometimes leather meal, maybe some blood meal or bone meal, and poultry litter. Feather and leather meals take forever to decompose and are not very good near term fertilizers. Blood meal works so fast you can only use a little bit at a time. Bone meal is not a nitrogen fertilizer. Poultry litter is very good, but you'll only find that premixed with other fertilizers. It's basically chicken manure compost. Still it's a very good additive if you have a source. The point of this is that you don't have to buy commercially bagged products to get the effect of commercially bagged organic fertilizer. Here's a picture from another forum showing the effect of alfalfa pellets on a zoysia lawn. The pic was taken a month after the application. Thanks to mrmumbles for posting the picture.

Image

You can easily see the improved color, density, and growth.

As to your original question, there probably is some advantage to mixing up the fertilizers as long as there is a difference in ingredients. How long can we live on hamburgers? I am not aware of any research on these basic feed materials as far as fertilizer performance. If there is any research like that, it is probably locked up at Ringer or Espoma headquarters.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by schreibdave » September 5th, 2018, 2:59 pm

My soil is deficient in both P and K. I rotate Ringers (K) and Milo (P) to in the summer to bring the P and K up. In spring and fall I am doing 10-10-10. I'll retest next spring and if the P and K are where they need to be I will mostly use milo because of cost and availability.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » September 7th, 2018, 1:01 pm

If you are going to worry about P and K, both of which are chemical and not organic compounds, then just get some P and K chemical sources and get it over with. Once the chemistry is adjusted you can pour on the organics. If you look at the Ringer's bag, the reason it is high in K is because it has chemical K (potassium sulfate sometimes called sulfate of potash) as an additive. You can buy that at the nursery or feed store and save some money.


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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by schreibdave » September 8th, 2018, 6:34 am

Hmm ... I assumed that the K was from an organic source. Thanks

I have successfully found sources for just K and just P locally over the years but its not easy and it's not cheap. I have been using the 10-10-10 as my primary P and K source. I know that it's not ideal and likely rough on the micro herd but it's cheap and easily available.
Dchall_San_Antonio wrote:
September 7th, 2018, 1:01 pm
If you are going to worry about P and K, both of which are chemical and not organic compounds, then just get some P and K chemical sources and get it over with. Once the chemistry is adjusted you can pour on the organics. If you look at the Ringer's bag, the reason it is high in K is because it has chemical K (potassium sulfate sometimes called sulfate of potash) as an additive. You can buy that at the nursery or feed store and save some money.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by Green » October 13th, 2018, 8:00 pm

schreibdave wrote:
September 8th, 2018, 6:34 am
Hmm ... I assumed that the K was from an organic source.
There are organic/natural sources of K. For example, there is Sunflower Seed Hull Ash. I've used it.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by LawnDiva » May 16th, 2019, 3:05 am

I’d like to share a couple things. On the alfalfa, I studied herbology for people, not gardening, and learned that alfalfa used as a herb contains more minerals than any other herb. The reason is it’s roots grow deeper than any other plant. So it makes sense to me you are seeing great results with the alfalfa pellets, I’m sure that is one happy Lawn :) I may give it a try at some point.

The other thing I recently learned was on the Lawn Care Nut video, “How to Fix an Ugly Lawn,” he also recommends mixing up the organic fertilizers. Though he is a great fan of Milorganite, he recommends at least one application of Ringer during the growing season to add some microbes into the soil. I believe this video was done long before he got involved with the N-ext products. I’m on the West Coast and though we get Milo out here, I have yet to see Ringer. However, we do have E.B Stone organic lawn fertilizer, and it’s ingredients are very similar to Ringer.

I would imagine between Milo, Ringer (or similar) and the alfalfa, you’re mixing it up pretty well.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by Masbustelo » May 16th, 2019, 2:30 pm

Don't overlook good quality compost as a fertilizer, maybe the best organic fertilizer of them all.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » May 20th, 2019, 11:01 am

Masbustelo wrote:
May 16th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Don't overlook good quality compost as a fertilizer, maybe the best organic fertilizer of them all.
Actually, I disagree with that. Of all the organic fertilizers, compost is at the bottom of the list in all respects. Compost is a depleted product made from formerly good sources of protein, carbohydrates, vitamins, and minerals. When almost all of the microbes have fed off the foodstuffs and died, you are left with compost. It is the undigestable cellulose and lignins from the original ingredients plus the carcasses for the foregoing microbes that once digested the products. Compost does make an excellent micro mulch, but as for being a fertilizer, almost anything is better. Economically, it costs anywhere from 5 to 15 times more than the equivalent fertilizer value materials. For compost the application rate is 700 pounds per 1,000 square feet. For organic fertilizer the rate is 15-20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. Almost all the benefit of compost comes from the mulching effect and slowing the evaporation of moisture from the soil.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by Masbustelo » May 20th, 2019, 11:25 pm

You might be right laboratory wise, but when I apply it , it makes my grass do really good things. I didn't say compost was cheaper, it looks like in my area the cost is about 3x more than Milorganite. But it's an apples and oranges comparison. The compost I used had enough urea content that it burnt the turf here and there. I've used it for years in my garden with great results. Growing grass is just another type of gardening.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by lojack323 » May 22nd, 2019, 12:17 pm

Dchall_San_Antonio wrote:
May 20th, 2019, 11:01 am
Compost is a depleted product made from formerly good sources of protein, carbohydrates, vitamins, and minerals.
Masbustelo wrote:
May 20th, 2019, 11:25 pm
The compost I used had enough urea content that it burnt the turf here and there. I've used it for years in my garden with great results. Growing grass is just another type of gardening.

Honest question from a composting newbie here (I started this year when I asked for a compost tumbler for Christmas. My wife looked at me weird lol).

I've understood compost to be mainly a good source of microbes and OM. Is the burning Masbustelo mentioned coming from their compost being unfinished and/or the "urea" in whatever compost was used?

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by Masbustelo » May 22nd, 2019, 5:22 pm

Lojack The compost I use is a city waste product. They grind trees, grass clippings and leaves and then enter them into a hi-tech commercial composter. At some point in the process, sewage sludge is added along the way. It isn't the same product you will get from your tumbler.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by TimmyG » May 22nd, 2019, 11:55 pm

Compost with sewage sludge added is not what any of us would ever refer to as "compost". Now if that sewage sludge were fully composted, then we'd again be looking at a depleted product with little in the way of nutrients.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by Masbustelo » May 23rd, 2019, 7:59 am

Would you say that Milorganite is not an organic fertilizer?

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by turf_toes » May 23rd, 2019, 8:33 am

Masbustelo wrote:
May 23rd, 2019, 7:59 am
Would you say that Milorganite is not an organic fertilizer?
Compost isn’t necessarily the same thing as “organic fertilizer.”

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by ken-n-nancy » May 23rd, 2019, 9:58 am

Masbustelo wrote:
May 23rd, 2019, 7:59 am
Would you say that Milorganite is not an organic fertilizer?
Well, it all depends upon one's definition of "organic."

The definition of "organic" depends a lot on who you ask. It can mean contained within an organic molecule, or it can mean derived from an organic source (OMRI definition), or it could mean natural vs. man-made, or it may just mean that the person who seeks an "organic" solution wants a solution that is low-impact to the environment.

If using the first definition, many of our conventional fertilizers are organic (including urea). If using the second, which is what OMRI (https://www.omri.org/) uses, comparatively few fertilizer materials are organic. If using the natural vs. man-made distinction, then sometimes the method of creation of the fertilizer is the key distinction for a given product; for example, Sulfate of Potash may fall into either category, depending upon whether the specific product was mined (which would be natural) or synthesized from other materials in a factory (which would be man-made). If the person wants a product that is low-impact to the environment, then whether or not the material is organic by either of the first two definitions is pretty much irrelevant, as impact to the environment has as much to do with the quantity, timing, and frequency of use of the product as it does the actual product itself.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by TimmyG » May 23rd, 2019, 10:13 am

Masbustelo wrote:
May 23rd, 2019, 7:59 am
Would you say that Milorganite is not an organic fertilizer?
To add to what K&N just wrote, see my old post.

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by lojack323 » May 23rd, 2019, 12:55 pm

Reading the last few posts, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like Masbustelo was asking if Milorganite was considered "fertilizer" not necessarily if it was "organic."

I enjoy threads and discussions like these as a relative newcomer to using organics as fertilizer. I just started last spring and that, plus the tips and information I've learned from this site, helped turn my yard from a self proclaimed eyesore to "one of the best in the neighborhood" as I'm repeatedly told by my neighbors. Much thanks to all the knowledgeable users here!

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Re: Varying Organic Fertilizers

Post by TimmyG » May 23rd, 2019, 8:39 pm

lojack323 wrote:
May 23rd, 2019, 12:55 pm
Reading the last few posts, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like Masbustelo was asking if Milorganite was considered "fertilizer" not necessarily if it was "organic."
I don't know why anyone would question whether Milorganite is considered a fertilizer. That's literally its purpose and how it is marketed and used. Milorganite is comprised of the dead microbes that have consumed the nutrients from the sewage sludge. Honestly, I don't know whether that process is considered a composting process, but the end result is that Milorganite is far more nutrient rich, nitrogen in particular, than your standard compost.

Therefore, it seemed only logical that Masbustelo was questioning whether Milorganite fertilizer is considered organic.

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