My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

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john5246
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My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by john5246 » June 26th, 2019, 11:44 pm

because I am not a nutcase. Yes, I could've bought the entire pallet, rented a truck for $19 and had them load it up... then store it in my garage having it smell like sh-t (success) everytime I go to start my car.
It's ok to only buy what you need.

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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by TimmyG » June 27th, 2019, 10:40 am

We get it, John. You're haven't been brainwashed by the Milorganite "propaganda". There is no need to stock up (on anything, not just Milorganite) when stock availability isn't an issue, when the price is always good or never changes, and when you frequent the store anyway. But when any of those conditions aren't a given, there is no harm in stocking up when the price is good or availability is fleeting.

FWIW, I used to store dozens of bags of Milorganite (or Bay State) in an attached garage without any issue with smell once the bags were stacked and left undisturbed. So when the price was right (like the 1/2 price April sales at True Value), you bet your bottom I stocked up.

That said, you're actually using more Milorganite than I am right now. It's been over a year since my last bag went down. There haven't been any sales, so I've been sticking with urea and various clearance fertilizers. Big lawn. Lots of trade offs.

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HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » June 27th, 2019, 10:47 am

Oh heck I bought an entire pallet a couple years ago. But that was like 2 bags for someone with a 2500 sf lawn.

That price goes up, now you see more players in the market. Lots of milo alternatives showing up.

john5246
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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by john5246 » June 27th, 2019, 3:27 pm

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 10:47 am
Oh heck I bought an entire pallet a couple years ago. But that was like 2 bags for someone with a 2500 sf lawn.

That price goes up, now you see more players in the market. Lots of milo alternatives showing up.
Yeah no kidding, it's a great thing actually because we don't want to put down loads of synthetics or other chemicals if we don't need them. I hope to see even more products out like this and hopefully a blend so that you can get the full N you need without over applying the P or the K. If you go only organic you need many bags to get your required N down but also end up over applying the P and K because of the ratio.

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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by turf_toes » June 27th, 2019, 4:14 pm

john5246 wrote:
June 26th, 2019, 11:44 pm
because I am not a nutcase. Yes, I could've bought the entire pallet, rented a truck for $19 and had them load it up... then store it in my garage having it smell like sh-t (success) everytime I go to start my car.
It's ok to only buy what you need.
It must be a tough place living inside your head.

I’m hardly the Milorganite guy here on the site. I basically use it at bag rate every six weeks or so. In truth, it’s not even Milo. I use Oceangro.

But why do you care whether someone else likes the product and the results they get from it? I just don’t understand the mindset of someone who has so much angst about something that isn’t harming anyone.

To each their own. Frankly, I think the heavy application rates can cause problems in some cases. But the folks who do it seem aware of the risk. So why would you harbor enough resentment that you would call someone a nut?


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andy10917
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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by andy10917 » June 27th, 2019, 6:33 pm

Yeah no kidding, it's a great thing actually because we don't want to put down loads of synthetics or other chemicals if we don't need them. I hope to see even more products out like this and hopefully a blend so that you can get the full N you need without over applying the P or the K. If you go only organic you need many bags to get your required N down but also end up over applying the P and K because of the ratio.
Maybe I'm dense, but I don't get your line of reasoning. Maybe the Organic Forum isn't the place to discuss this, but you're both arguing for and against the use of organics in the same paragraph!!

By their definition, organics are unrefined, and therefore have a lower nutrient density. That leads to the need to have to put down more of them, and builds up transportation costs and a requisite load of work for the buyer. Everyone gets it, and makes their own decision about whether they choose to go ahead or not.

If you don't refine products, you get them in their natural forms, and whatever NPK that natural form contains. Doing work to "remove" the P and K to meet your wishes would be the very definition of refinement - therefore it's no longer the "organic" product. If raw mineral products are refined to make the desired nutrient-denser material, then you are synthetic.

You're asking that a product avoid the "synthetic" label, but meet a consistent, desirable, repeatable formula. That's damned close to impossible, or impossible. You could roll-your-own fertilizer with mixtures that have low P and K (blood meal is 13-1-0.6 which be pretty close to your stated desire). Oh, blood meal is not cheap.

On the other hand, "synthetic" doesn't mean "toxic", "bad" or anything negative, really. Urea exists in nature, but it's far cheaper to synthesize it in a factory than purify it from raw materials. Both are CH4N2O. It was the first organic compound to be made from inorganic raw materials without a living organism involved. Both are Urea, and identical.

It sounds to me like you're looking for a natural ("organic") substance that is nutrient dense, acts as a purified substance (no or extremely-low P or K along for the ride), that isn't synthesized, and is reasonably priced.

It doesn't exist.

What you never said, but seem to be open to is a "hybrid product". You could take Milorganite and add Urea (once you do the math) to boost the N of the mixture. By therefore upping the N percentage/density you'd need to apply less and lessen the amount of P and K applied. But if you do that, it's no longer a product using the Nitrogen Cycle, and why not be all "synthetic" instead of riding neither train fully?

Your current post argues both sides of a mutually-exclusive situation, unless I'm missing something. It doesn't work.

PS: unless you're trolling us, trying to cause dissension. That won't work for very long, either...

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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » June 28th, 2019, 9:54 am

The thing is, products aren't moral or immoral. Their usage can be.

Will we condemn baseball bats because people use them to club others?

Overapplying P, K, or anything else is a user application error, not a product morality issue.

The bags have labels for a reason, they get reviewed by local regulatory agencies tasked with protecting the environment and giving people good directions.

Case in point, milorganite had an administrative label issue with the state of Indiana this year. Nothing dangerous or unsafe, just making sure the label was accurate (the product changes given they recycle highly variable sludge). The product was blocked from import into the state until it was resolved.

john5246
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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by john5246 » June 28th, 2019, 4:28 pm

turf_toes wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 4:14 pm
john5246 wrote:
June 26th, 2019, 11:44 pm
because I am not a nutcase. Yes, I could've bought the entire pallet, rented a truck for $19 and had them load it up... then store it in my garage having it smell like sh-t (success) everytime I go to start my car.
It's ok to only buy what you need.
It must be a tough place living inside your head.

I’m hardly the Milorganite guy here on the site. I basically use it at bag rate every six weeks or so. In truth, it’s not even Milo. I use Oceangro.

But why do you care whether someone else likes the product and the results they get from it? I just don’t understand the mindset of someone who has so much angst about something that isn’t harming anyone.

To each their own. Frankly, I think the heavy application rates can cause problems in some cases. But the folks who do it seem aware of the risk. So why would you harbor enough resentment that you would call someone a nut?
When people hoard the product like nutcases I can't get the 2 bags I need for an application...so it does affect me. I like the product too which is why I bought some.

john5246
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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by john5246 » June 28th, 2019, 4:33 pm

andy10917 wrote:
June 27th, 2019, 6:33 pm
Yeah no kidding, it's a great thing actually because we don't want to put down loads of synthetics or other chemicals if we don't need them. I hope to see even more products out like this and hopefully a blend so that you can get the full N you need without over applying the P or the K. If you go only organic you need many bags to get your required N down but also end up over applying the P and K because of the ratio.
Maybe I'm dense, but I don't get your line of reasoning. Maybe the Organic Forum isn't the place to discuss this, but you're both arguing for and against the use of organics in the same paragraph!!

By their definition, organics are unrefined, and therefore have a lower nutrient density. That leads to the need to have to put down more of them, and builds up transportation costs and a requisite load of work for the buyer. Everyone gets it, and makes their own decision about whether they choose to go ahead or not.

If you don't refine products, you get them in their natural forms, and whatever NPK that natural form contains. Doing work to "remove" the P and K to meet your wishes would be the very definition of refinement - therefore it's no longer the "organic" product. If raw mineral products are refined to make the desired nutrient-denser material, then you are synthetic.

You're asking that a product avoid the "synthetic" label, but meet a consistent, desirable, repeatable formula. That's damned close to impossible, or impossible. You could roll-your-own fertilizer with mixtures that have low P and K (blood meal is 13-1-0.6 which be pretty close to your stated desire). Oh, blood meal is not cheap.

On the other hand, "synthetic" doesn't mean "toxic", "bad" or anything negative, really. Urea exists in nature, but it's far cheaper to synthesize it in a factory than purify it from raw materials. Both are CH4N2O. It was the first organic compound to be made from inorganic raw materials without a living organism involved. Both are Urea, and identical.

It sounds to me like you're looking for a natural ("organic") substance that is nutrient dense, acts as a purified substance (no or extremely-low P or K along for the ride), that isn't synthesized, and is reasonably priced.

It doesn't exist.

What you never said, but seem to be open to is a "hybrid product". You could take Milorganite and add Urea (once you do the math) to boost the N of the mixture. By therefore upping the N percentage/density you'd need to apply less and lessen the amount of P and K applied. But if you do that, it's no longer a product using the Nitrogen Cycle, and why not be all "synthetic" instead of riding neither train fully?

Your current post argues both sides of a mutually-exclusive situation, unless I'm missing something. It doesn't work.

PS: unless you're trolling us, trying to cause dissension. That won't work for very long, either...
The Milo plus Urea is a good idea.
What I meant was that the 4 step programs contain chemicals that you don't always need. For example, I spot treated for about 25 broad leaf weed so far this year. I used to put down the weed and feed blanketing the whole property in 2-4 D and all that stuff.

john5246
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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by john5246 » June 28th, 2019, 4:40 pm

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 9:54 am
The thing is, products aren't moral or immoral. Their usage can be.

Will we condemn baseball bats because people use them to club others?

Overapplying P, K, or anything else is a user application error, not a product morality issue.

The bags have labels for a reason, they get reviewed by local regulatory agencies tasked with protecting the environment and giving people good directions.

Case in point, milorganite had an administrative label issue with the state of Indiana this year. Nothing dangerous or unsafe, just making sure the label was accurate (the product changes given they recycle highly variable sludge). The product was blocked from import into the state until it was resolved.
I don't think it's about morality. My main point was be considerate of others and buy what you need so others have a chance too (yes I know I'm too nice). Lawn care doesn't have to be a zero sum game where a few people hoard all the pallets so no one else can buy it.

By the way, there are 2 bags left of the 55 or so that came in on that pallet at Home Depot according to their inventory. Why? Because some nutcase saw that it was in stock and bought up most of the stock. That wasn't 55 separate people buying 1 bag or even 27 people buying 2 bags each.

I want us to have more options so these hoarding nonsense can stop. Around here, it's just Milo and the menards knock off stuff.

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andy10917
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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by andy10917 » June 28th, 2019, 4:48 pm

I think you need to stop the "nutcase" stuff. Now.

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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by bpgreen » June 29th, 2019, 1:13 am

john5246 wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 4:40 pm
HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 9:54 am
The thing is, products aren't moral or immoral. Their usage can be.

Will we condemn baseball bats because people use them to club others?

Overapplying P, K, or anything else is a user application error, not a product morality issue.

The bags have labels for a reason, they get reviewed by local regulatory agencies tasked with protecting the environment and giving people good directions.

Case in point, milorganite had an administrative label issue with the state of Indiana this year. Nothing dangerous or unsafe, just making sure the label was accurate (the product changes given they recycle highly variable sludge). The product was blocked from import into the state until it was resolved.
I don't think it's about morality. My main point was be considerate of others and buy what you need so others have a chance too (yes I know I'm too nice). Lawn care doesn't have to be a zero sum game where a few people hoard all the pallets so no one else can buy it.

By the way, there are 2 bags left of the 55 or so that came in on that pallet at Home Depot according to their inventory. Why? Because some nutcase saw that it was in stock and bought up most of the stock. That wasn't 55 separate people buying 1 bag or even 27 people buying 2 bags each.

I want us to have more options so these hoarding nonsense can stop. Around here, it's just Milo and the menards knock off stuff.
How do you know it wasn't 55 people buying one bag apiece, or 27 people buying 2 bags? And even it it was a few people buying larger quantities, how do you know they're not just buying for a larger lawn?

A few weeks ago I saw something at Costco and considered buying it, but didn't. When I was there last week, they were out. It happens.

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Re: My local big box store got Milorganite in Stock, and I only bought 2 bags

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » June 29th, 2019, 3:56 pm

Well you can all go ahead and call me St. HLG.

I've purchased exactly one bag of milorganite in the last 2 years. Meanwhile I've started threads and forewarned the shortage while informing others of available supplies.

🤣🤣

I dont care how much you all buy in advance. Good for Milwaukee. Good for you. the market has already seen new biosolid products filling in the supply gap.

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