Want to try Milorganite

This is the place to discuss Organic lawncare.
User avatar
xxryu139xx
Posts: 1173
Joined: July 22nd, 2011, 4:52 pm
Location: 6a Union, NJ
Grass Type: Elite KBG: Emblem/NuGlade/Bedazzled
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by xxryu139xx » April 14th, 2012, 2:54 pm

i feel you, i am also a city boy and never had a lawn until last year. i, too, just followed whatever was said in the bag and needless to say, i've burnt my original lawn a few times.

here are a couple of things u need to buy:

1. ordinary kitchen scale
- after you measure out the different areas of your lawn, you can weigh out the exact amount u need for that specific area of the lawn. if u have a very large lawn, then i would suggest getting one of those really large scales sensitive to a lb or an ounce.

2. kitchen measuring set with cups and teaspoons/tablespooins
- u'll need these to measure out those things of small quantities such as herbicides, soil amendments. trust me they will come in handy.

3. piston syringes
- u'll need these to draw up liquid herbicides/fertilizers in mls or fluid ounces

4. broadcast spreader
- real good for spreading large particle size like grains when u start using them. full open on the hopper and spread away. it's also better for people with large lawns, less passes because of the larger broadcast spread. personally, i like the drop spreader, for a small lawn owner like me, it can be very precise.

use unit conversion tools easily found on the net, so you can convert the amounts u need to something you can measure out with provided tools above.

measure out your lawn per area or as a whole. u can be lazy like me and use google maps distance measurement. or u can be pro and get one of those rolling tools and get the exact measurements. they even have laser measurement tools, but u'll only use it once, and that would be quite a waste.

here are some spreading tips for u. don't let the math scare u, i've a nurse by profession, but an engineer at heart. both professions do a lot of math, whether calculating medication dosages or physics equations:\

i'll use my lawn as an example. i want to spread 2 bags of milorganite over 1567 sq.ft. of lawn. for milorganite, i can completely ignore the bag recommendations because it's inherently burn-safe. i would probably use a lower rate over the summer, because of the formularity, but that's another issue in itself, which has been discussed in another thread here somewhere.

so a bag of milorganite is 36 lbs. two makes 72 lbs. so that's 72 lbs over 1567 sq. ft.

to convert this into lbs per 1000:
72/1567 = x / 1000
x = 45.95 lbs / 1000 sq.ft.

so now i want to know how much i need to apply per area. my main lawn is about 1200 sq.ft.

45.95 lbs / 1000 sq. ft. = x / 1200 sq, ft.
x = 55.14 lbs

I would weigh out 55.14 lbs only to use for my 1200 sq.ft. area. Now this is too much to measure with my kitchen scale, and the makers of milorganite are kind enough to provide a conversion factor on the bag, which is 1 lb = 3 cups.

55.14 lbs * 3 cups = 165.42 cups

I'll just use my measuring cups and count out 166 cups and put it into my spreader. Counting 165 cups is a PITA, so i go do my smaller areas first, since they need less amounts of MO, and w/e is left i would just dump into the main lawn. sum of all the parts equals the whole.

I used a Scotts drop spreader mostly last year. For MO, i would start at the lowest setting at 2, and make millions of passes until i ran out. that gave me a supremely accurate spread, but it also resulted in me spending an hour to spread 72 lbs of stuff. to start learning the right calibration for my drop spreader, i would start at the lowest setting, make one complete pass, then i would set it to 4, then make another complete pass, and set it again higher until i get the right approximate setting. i would make note of this setting and use it again next time i drop MO. Process will start over if you are going to drop a different amendment (particle size is larger or smaller so u won't be able to use the same setting).

Now let's use a Scott's fert example. Here is their starter fertilizer Scott's Starter Fertilizer. Bag says 18 lbs for upto 5000 sq.ft. Most homeowners would do is dump the whole bag into their spreader, put the "correct" setting that's on the bag and start going up and down. Next thing you know, the hopper is empty and u have used up a 5000 sq.ft. bag on a 1567 sq.ft. lawn. I know i did last year, cause i didn't know any better. End result = burnt lawn.

So if u want to use synthetic fertilizer, then u will have to follow bag rate. its dangerous to screw around bag rates, until u learn how to calculate the resulting N per lb of what you are doing. that u can learn later as it makes things more complicated, or until u want to drop urea in the fall.

So for my lawn as an example again, 18 lbs for 5000 sq. ft. you will have to convert this into lbs per 1000 sq.ft.

18 / 5000 = x / 1000
x = 3.6 lbs / 1000 sq. ft.

so for my main lawn, which is 1567 sq. ft., i need to get the amount i need for that specific area.

3.6 lbs / 1000 sq.ft. = x / 1567 sq.ft.
x = 5.64 lbs

I need to weigh out 5.64 lbs of starter only for use on my main front lawn. My kitchen scale doesn't do pounds, so i need to convert it into ounces. u can use google to convert or if u remember the conversion 1lb = 16 ounzes.

5.64 lbs * 16 oz = 90.2592 ounces

So i will measure 90.2592 ounzes of starter, dump it into my spreader and spread it on my main lawn.

I do these calculations for all the stuff that i use: herbicides, MO, fertilizers, amendments. U say, that's a ton of calculations. That's why i keep a spreadsheet and i have it set up so i don't have to keep on recalculating. I also printed out a list of how much each app rate is and i just reference that.

Anyway i rambled long enough, but i was bored, and there really is no one thread here teaching calculations, so i might as well. I hope this has been somewhat helpful, and if u already knew how to do all that stuff, i'm sure someone else who doesn't can use the information. :clapping:

plynn7
Posts: 141
Joined: April 2nd, 2012, 5:23 pm
Location: Southeastern, Pa
Grass Type: Tall Fescue/KBG Mix
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by plynn7 » April 14th, 2012, 2:57 pm

Great, I am really excited to get started on the right path, soil test will sent this week.
I mow at the highest setting
Watering last summer was trial and error, I over watered and got brown patch and had to treat it with Heritage G, seems all of the lawn has bounced back this spring. So this year I plan 45min-1hour per zone once a week starting at 3am
I live just outside of Philadelphia 19029

plynn7
Posts: 141
Joined: April 2nd, 2012, 5:23 pm
Location: Southeastern, Pa
Grass Type: Tall Fescue/KBG Mix
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by plynn7 » April 14th, 2012, 3:04 pm

Thank You xxryu139xx, stuff like this is exactly what I am looking for.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29741
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by andy10917 » April 14th, 2012, 3:17 pm

Here's a great, great product for determining the proper amount to irrigate: empty tuna fish cans.

Spread them around the lawn and water for an hour. Then use that information to calculate how long 1" of water would take. Start off at 1" of water per week, and as you get comfortable, adjust it so that you only do irrigation when the lawn shows the earliest signs of stress.

There is an Agway, 17 miles away in West Chester. Great for if you want to use organics - many times you'll call and special order things like SBM, and pick them up a week later. There is a John Deere Landscapes in West Chester also, but the one in Cherry Hill, NJ is actually closer. I guess it depends on where you work. Use the store locator.

Looking at what I can tell from your Penn State soil test (limited), you're going to be looking for good Calcitic Lime. Start checking out garden centers in your area and look for brands like Pennington, Encap or Jonathan Green Mir-A-Cal/Mag-i-Cal. You'll need several other nutrients also, but let's wait for the Logan results.

How big is this lawn (or lawns) in square feet (round to the nearest 1000 sq ft)?

GaryCinChicago
Posts: 6332
Joined: January 31st, 2009, 10:04 pm
Location: Chicago, IL.
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by GaryCinChicago » April 14th, 2012, 9:21 pm

xxryu139xx:

Excellent posts - well done!!!


User avatar
xxryu139xx
Posts: 1173
Joined: July 22nd, 2011, 4:52 pm
Location: 6a Union, NJ
Grass Type: Elite KBG: Emblem/NuGlade/Bedazzled
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by xxryu139xx » April 14th, 2012, 9:25 pm

thanks! merely regurgitating information i have learned from all you gurus mixed in with some self-realizations about lawn care. :yahoo:

User avatar
MorpheusPA
Posts: 18136
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by MorpheusPA » April 14th, 2012, 11:39 pm

xxryu139xx wrote: here's an epiphany. most homeowners want to have the best looking lawn/grass. in reality, once u fall deep into the matrix, its not about growing grass or having the best lawn. what you are really growing and taking care of is your soil, the nutrients in it and the micro-organisms that keep it healthy. a huge plus from "growing" your soil is that it helps the grass. lets call it a beneficial side effect that if u take care of your soil u end up with nice grass.
Exactly. Bad soil can be forced, temporarily, to grow nice grass...but you'll probably find yourself in a boom/bust cycle that gets increasingly worse as time goes on. Eventually you can't get it into boom cycle any longer. Soil tests at that point will generally show a collapsed soil.

Good soil just grows nice grass all on its own, without the boom/bust. Some soils are better than others, but any soil can be worked with. Good soils, if ignored, can become bad ones. Any bad soil can eventually become a good one, but it takes time.
that have been cultivating their microbes, their organic dumps disappear in a couple of weeks. i think morph's soil can eat anything in just a week.
Pretty much. The corn I dropped last Saturday is already gone, although I'm sure if I poke around I'd still see a few grains here and there. Mine's not as tuned for cellulose as Andy's is, which can eat several inches of leaves a week.
another thing is no lawn (except maybe morphs and andys) look good all year round.
Define good. You find your definition changing over time to the point that the lawn I have in February is one that most people would kill for in May...but I try to ignore it because I definitely see the signs of winter in it.

User avatar
sc4dr
Posts: 1263
Joined: August 4th, 2011, 8:49 pm
Location: Lutherville, Timonium, MD
Grass Type: Blueberry / Bewitched KBG - Bullseye, Hemi, Magellan TTTF
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by sc4dr » April 15th, 2012, 12:36 am

I had the pleasure of seeing dark green grass all winter this year, I dont think it went dormant with the mild temps we had. But I owe it all to frequent Milorganite treatments and adding organic matter like peat moss, leaf compost, grass clippings, leaf mulching.....

I used to be a "scotts program" guy too, until I saw the light. Good luck Plynn! Come winter you should have greenerm thicker grass than your "Scotts" neighbor

plynn7
Posts: 141
Joined: April 2nd, 2012, 5:23 pm
Location: Southeastern, Pa
Grass Type: Tall Fescue/KBG Mix
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by plynn7 » April 15th, 2012, 5:00 pm

Thanks everyone for your input. So, I have picked up two bags of MILO and two 40lb bags of the Calc lime. What should I do now, should I wait for the test results from Logan before putting anything down? I have already taken about 20 samples of soil from my yard both front and back. Would it be better to do two seperate tests one for the back yard and one for the front or is one test enough for both yards combined? My front yard is 1550 sq ft and back yard is 2300 sq ft.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29741
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by andy10917 » April 15th, 2012, 9:16 pm

Slow down!! You're already wasting money...

You have less than 4000 sq ft. The maximum calcitic application at once is 9 lbs/1000 sq ft, so you've already purchased twice the calcitic that you could use.

I know you're excited now, but concentrate on getting that soil test out and the results posted.

Somebody tell Plynn what the most important word is in lawn care...

User avatar
xxryu139xx
Posts: 1173
Joined: July 22nd, 2011, 4:52 pm
Location: 6a Union, NJ
Grass Type: Elite KBG: Emblem/NuGlade/Bedazzled
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by xxryu139xx » April 15th, 2012, 9:20 pm

feed it? :banghead:

User avatar
Barley
Posts: 1705
Joined: November 4th, 2010, 1:26 pm
Location: Helenville, WI
Grass Type: Main Lawn: Common KBG. Buffer Lawn: Eureka II Hard Fescue.
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by Barley » April 15th, 2012, 9:20 pm

andy10917 wrote:Somebody tell Plynn what the most important word is in lawn care...
"Where is the RoundUp?". Wait, that's four words.
"I'm sorry, dear". Wait, that's three words.
"$%@*&#@ POA!!!". Wait, that's two words.

"Patience"

User avatar
simpson
Posts: 4982
Joined: June 14th, 2009, 1:12 pm
Location: elkton md
Grass Type: moonlight slt
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by simpson » April 15th, 2012, 9:28 pm

^^^bahahahahahaha^^^ that was great

[ Post made via Android ] Image

User avatar
nothing0
Posts: 1982
Joined: June 7th, 2009, 12:54 pm
Location: Evansville, IN
Grass Type: Front yard-3rd Millennium TTTF Back- Zinfandel KBG
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by nothing0 » April 15th, 2012, 10:01 pm

Barley wrote:
andy10917 wrote:Somebody tell Plynn what the most important word is in lawn care...
"Where is the RoundUp?". Wait, that's four words.
"I'm sorry, dear". Wait, that's three words.
"$%@*&#@ POA!!!". Wait, that's two words.

"Patience"
Sticky that! You just explained a renovation. :rotfl:

plynn7
Posts: 141
Joined: April 2nd, 2012, 5:23 pm
Location: Southeastern, Pa
Grass Type: Tall Fescue/KBG Mix
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by plynn7 » April 16th, 2012, 10:19 am

andy10917, the soil test will be in the mail today. Any advice on doing two seperate tests one for the front and back yard or is one combined test good enough.

User avatar
Barley
Posts: 1705
Joined: November 4th, 2010, 1:26 pm
Location: Helenville, WI
Grass Type: Main Lawn: Common KBG. Buffer Lawn: Eureka II Hard Fescue.
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by Barley » April 16th, 2012, 10:23 am

plynn7 wrote:andy10917, the soil test will be in the mail today. Any advice on doing two seperate tests one for the front and back yard or is one combined test good enough.
Depends on two things:

1. Do you mind spending the extra $20 for the second test, and are you willing to potentially follow two treatment plans?

2. Are there any noticeable differences between the front and back? Soil texture, hills, quality of the lawn, etc.

[ Post made via Android ] Image

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29741
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by andy10917 » April 16th, 2012, 10:24 am

If you think they are sufficiently different from each other in soil quality, or you plan to work on them differently, then two tests makes sense. Otherwise, save the money.

PS: just call me "Andy"...

User avatar
nothing0
Posts: 1982
Joined: June 7th, 2009, 12:54 pm
Location: Evansville, IN
Grass Type: Front yard-3rd Millennium TTTF Back- Zinfandel KBG
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by nothing0 » April 16th, 2012, 8:56 pm

Take it from someone who had a ph of 7.2 in the front and 5 in the back... Sometimes the old home owner neglects the back.

plynn7
Posts: 141
Joined: April 2nd, 2012, 5:23 pm
Location: Southeastern, Pa
Grass Type: Tall Fescue/KBG Mix
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by plynn7 » April 17th, 2012, 12:50 pm

Just so you guys know, this is what I am dealing with. One picture is my front yard and the other is my back yard. They both were taken around the same time last summer, about 3 months after the sod was put down in April. You can see the front yard looks bad but the back really looks good and looked good for most of the summer. I want to avoid this happening again this summer. Now both yards look good, the back a little better then the front, but still good.
Image

Image

GaryCinChicago
Posts: 6332
Joined: January 31st, 2009, 10:04 pm
Location: Chicago, IL.
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Want to try Milorganite

Post by GaryCinChicago » April 18th, 2012, 2:01 am

plynn7 wrote:I want to avoid this happening again this summer..

Image

Image
Your tree picture is dated from July 2011. Hot time picture.

Avoid??? .... the tree drinking more water than the grass? Using more nutrients than the grass? Shading the grass and preventing photosynthesis of the grass?

Milorganite won't help that - the tree wins that fight every time. The tree roots are just bigger.

(Bark / trunk looks like a Maple. I'm experienced)

All you can do is adjust & modify. Water a little more under that umbrella. Trim some branches to let more sunlight to penetrate. And this situation is one of the few cases IMHO that I would recommend a foliage applied fertilizer in the immediate area. The grass blades would suck the nitrogen in and could flourish before the tree roots bullied the grass saying "Give me that ya little twerp!"

Then when that fails - we try different grass. We've all been there!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests