Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » September 15th, 2017, 11:29 am

mitten wrote:
September 14th, 2017, 11:24 am
Okay that helps. Do you think it's worth saving a few hundred and getting the smaller engine? What would you pay for a 2015 Timemaster in like new condition? Sorry, now I feel like I'm hijacking the thread...
If mulching is high on the desirable trait list for you, and you mow once a week, purchase the larger engine.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by seiyafan » September 15th, 2017, 11:39 am

Yesterday I visited a few Toro authorized dealers and none had Timemaster in stock for the rest of the year. I didn't realize about the transport issue until then, the Timemaster is still small enough to fit into the backseat of my sedan if I need to bring it in for any repair under warranty, but it's not impossible for a 2-stage snowblower.
All in all, I will most likely order one from HD.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » September 15th, 2017, 11:50 am

ETA: And, I'm with STL - had 2 with bum engines. I bought a brand new one from HD several years ago (it had the old engine), then exchanged it when I wasn't satisfied with how the engine sounded when running. The one I got from the exchange lasted until the summer when the engine blew, and then the repair shop I took it to held onto it for several weeks in the midst of their busy season - Toro even sent a rep out to look at that engine. I like to think I played a small part in the engine upgrade :D

If the cut weren't so awesome on that lawn I had I would've gotten my money back.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by seiyafan » September 18th, 2017, 5:50 pm

Is there a difference between 4-stroke oil and gasoline oil? Can I use the oil I put in my car in mower and generator?

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 18th, 2017, 7:22 pm

seiyafan wrote:
September 18th, 2017, 5:50 pm
Is there a difference between 4-stroke oil and gasoline oil? Can I use the oil I put in my car in mower and generator?
I'm not sure what you mean by "gasoline oil."

I'm going to guess that what you're really asking is whether or not there is a difference between engine oil for a 4-stroke lawn mower engine and a conventional 4-stroke automotive engine.

If so, the answer is not really, but it's good to get the proper "weight" oil. It's unlikely that your lawn mower and automobile call for the same "weight" oil, but if they did, you could use the same oil in each. (For that matter, I'd be surprised if your generator uses the same weight oil as your car.)

Most modern automobiles use a 5W20 oil. Older cars from the late 90s typically use 5W30 oil; sometimes 10W30. Cars from the 80s frequently used 10W40 oil. Even older automobile engines (like my 1970 Triumph TR6) use a 20W50 oil in the summer.

Older Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engines typically use a straight 30-weight oil. My lawn mower was built in the prior century, and I've never had a mower with a Honda engine, so I don't know what they use. I would anticipate that a modern lawn mower engine may very well use a lighter oil.

Automotive oils and small engine oils will generally have different "additive" packages. Personally, I use an automotive 30-weight oil in my 1990s lawn mower.


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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by seiyafan » September 18th, 2017, 7:37 pm

Thanks, the reason I am asking is that my car uses 5W30 sythetic and the oil that came with a generator I recently is 10W30. In the event I lose power in extreme cold weather, 10W30 will have issue starting, for 5W30 some oil manufacturers specifically make that for small engine, hence my question.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 18th, 2017, 8:13 pm

seiyafan wrote:
September 18th, 2017, 7:37 pm
Thanks, the reason I am asking is that my car uses 5W30 sythetic and the oil that came with a generator I recently is 10W30. In the event I lose power in extreme cold weather, 10W30 will have issue starting, for 5W30 some oil manufacturers specifically make that for small engine, hence my question.
This is a simplification, but the first number (before the W) is a measure of how "thin" the oil remains at low temperatures (a smaller number is "thinner"), and the second number (after the W) is a measure of how "thick" (bigger numbers are "thicker") the oil remains at operating temperatures (100C = 212F).

If making an oil substitution, it is usually recommended to have the latter number match the manufacturer's recommendation. Thus, if your generator manufacturer specifies a 10W30 oil, then you could potentially substitute a 5W30 oil. The 5W30 oil will be thinner at low temperatures, making it a little easier to start the generator in the winter. The disadvantage of the 5W30 oil is that it is inherently a 5-weight oil, with additives to improve viscosity at high temperatures, so that it behaves like a traditional 30-weight oil at 100C. As the oil starts to break down after being subjected to high pressure and high heat (during use), the viscosity improving additives will become less effective, so that the old 5W30 oil will start to behave like a 5W20 oil, which means it won't be providing the protection the manufacturer intended from a 5W30 oil. The larger the spread is between the two numbers, the more the oil is subject to viscosity reduction as the oil additives break down.

So, the short answer is that you could substitute a 5W30 oil for the 10W30 oil in your generator. By doing so, you'll get better cold-start performance (behavior of a 5-weight oil instead of a 10-weight oil), without affecting the oil's effectiveness at operating temperatures (since both ratings end in "30"). However, you should be sure to follow the recommended oil change interval, and maybe even shorten it a bit if substituting a 5W30 oil for a 10W30 oil.

Of course, any oil substitutions not mentioned in the owner's manual probably void the manufacturer's warranty. The manual may list alternate acceptable oil weights, with different oil change intervals or recommended operating temperature ranges for each.

If you want to learn more about this, there's a plethora of articles on this topic on the net -- google will help you find them!

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by seiyafan » September 18th, 2017, 8:39 pm

That's awesome, thanks!

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by seiyafan » September 22nd, 2017, 8:13 am

Is there any other wide deck mower under $1500? Engine reliability of the new Timemaster worries me.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by micvog » September 22nd, 2017, 10:00 am

Cub Cadet has 3 "wide area" models ranging from 28" ($900 SRP) - 33" ($1300 SRP). I have never used a Cub Cadet so I don't have anything else to add; just had seen them on their website when I was researching mowers.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by TimmyG » September 22nd, 2017, 10:21 am

Cub Cadet sells the CC 760 ES and CC 800 33" walk behinds for about $1300. Troy-Bilt and Craftsman appear to sell rebranded clones. I have no experience with these mowers and don't vouch for their quality or reliability. I looked into them a bit last year but don't remember what I concluded relative to the Toro Timemaster and Turfmaster. I do remember this size being a very sparse market.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by seiyafan » September 22nd, 2017, 12:36 pm

Here's the update, I pulled the trigger on a Honda ‎HRX217. With my yard size (8-9k sq ft) the time saved with a 30' mower isn't going to be a deal breaker, but more importantly the reliability of Honda engine is what sold me. I read all the 1-star reviews on the Timemaster and someone specifically mentioned that after reading other reviews he believed the engine issue is a minority so he bought it until it stopped working for him on the 3rd use. I don't want to take the risk and be that guy.

Now I have two questions, are the stock dual-blades good enough or is there any better aftermarket ones? I am going to have an extra pair on hand.
Second question is related to spark arrester, the manual says it must be serviced every 100 hours but it also says the engine is not factory-equipped with one. Huh? Did you guys put one in after you bought it?

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by STL » September 22nd, 2017, 12:51 pm

From my research there are the 33 inch mowers mentioned above. A more residential 28 inch from cub, craftsman, and troy bilt. They're basically the same except for some feature differences. The troy bilt 28 inch flex, but its too gimicky for me. World Lawn has a commercial style 28 an 32 with a honda engine option sold through Home Depot. The Lawn Care Nut did a review on the world lawn on his youtube channel. He didn't really like it. Then there's the toro 30s. Of those, the timemaster suited me best for a lightweight, rear bagging option, wide cut mower. I hope Honda gets into the game eventually.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by HoosierDaddy » September 22nd, 2017, 2:07 pm

Get an extra pair of blades and rotate them pretty regularly. Otherwise, enjoy. My lawn looks like carpet after a pass with my HRX217. Make sure to get the throttle into the second notch for higher power. It seems there are some who have experienced suction issues, but I have none of those. I literally suck leaves in from the neighbor's yard.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by TimmyG » September 22nd, 2017, 3:01 pm

seiyafan wrote:
September 22nd, 2017, 12:36 pm
are the stock dual-blades good enough or is there any better aftermarket ones?
Gonna have to be good enough. I don't know of any aftermarket (or even Honda) options. This has come up before, and I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by andy10917 » September 23rd, 2017, 8:22 am

Given that most people give the Honda the top score for mulching quality, why would you want to replace something that is best-in-class?

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by seiyafan » September 25th, 2017, 5:28 pm

Replacement blades arrived today but mower has not shipped yet. This is probably worse than S&P

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by JohnP » September 27th, 2017, 3:13 pm

I might've missed it but what battery powered mower are you replacing? I have the Ego and while it's no superhero on mulching leaves my double pass has worked fairly well so far this year. Will see how well it keeps up as the season goes on though.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by seiyafan » September 27th, 2017, 5:43 pm

EGO is a good one, I had Greenworks 40V for 4 years. I know some models that came out in the last year have made pretty big improvement over the older ones.

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Re: Honda HRX vs Toro SR vs Timemaster (new engine)

Post by JohnP » September 27th, 2017, 11:32 pm

My Ego is a 56V, so maybe that's made enough of a difference for me. Just ordered a new high lift mulching blade for it that has some favorable reviews with mulching leaves. I have the Ego blower and snowblower. Have been happy with all of them so far.

Anyway, hope you're enjoying your new mower!

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