Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
- Abyss
- Posts: 750
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- Location: Just outside Philly
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Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
I'll add some pictures as it starts to really grow back in, but just wanted to put it out there that my patriot Bermuda has made it through the winter without a blanket. I let it grow out to 2" to insulate the roots, and I have zero winter kill. I am located about 20 miles north of Philadelphia.
I scalped the 2" off last Friday, and it is about 50% green already. I'm hoping for it to be fully greened up by the end of the week. I may purchase a blanket for it to help heat the soil up sooner next week, but being 2 weeks behind to mow isn't that bad compared to northern grasses. Last fall it stayed green pretty much to the point that everyone was doing their final cut as well.
The whole project started because I was tired of trying to keep northern grasses growing well in the heat of the summer. Nothing seemed to be happy, and I wasn't going to sacrifice down to heat tolerant blue which is doing well in my neighbors yard with zero input.
I scalped the 2" off last Friday, and it is about 50% green already. I'm hoping for it to be fully greened up by the end of the week. I may purchase a blanket for it to help heat the soil up sooner next week, but being 2 weeks behind to mow isn't that bad compared to northern grasses. Last fall it stayed green pretty much to the point that everyone was doing their final cut as well.
The whole project started because I was tired of trying to keep northern grasses growing well in the heat of the summer. Nothing seemed to be happy, and I wasn't going to sacrifice down to heat tolerant blue which is doing well in my neighbors yard with zero input.
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
That's pretty neat! Philly is definitely further South than I am...but I know that UConn has been working with Bermuda even further North here in CT (at a similar latitude to the Northernmost part of PA). They're thinking it might be good for non-irrigated school fields...which are essentially crabgrass in the Summer and dead crabgrass other times of the year.
Any pics of it this time of year compared to your cool-season grass?
How was this Winter in your area compared to normal as far as temps and snow? Any idea what the record lows were?
Any pics of it this time of year compared to your cool-season grass?
How was this Winter in your area compared to normal as far as temps and snow? Any idea what the record lows were?
- Abyss
- Posts: 750
- Joined: April 1st, 2009, 3:31 am
- Location: Just outside Philly
- Grass Type: Midnight II and Northstar out back
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
We didn't get a lot of snow, which was actually worse since it would create an insulating barrier against the cold streaks we had. There were 3 or 4 times it didn't get out of the teens, for 4-10 day streaks. All in all it was a little milder, but I have full faith the grass would've survived. Last year we had a pretty cold winter overall, and it pushed down to the Delmar peninsula where I purchased the seed from. I think they will continue to improve Bermuda cultivars to survive frosts better, earlier greening, and more winter kill tolerant, so they can be direct swaps for cold season varieties.
Anyway, here's a few pics 4 days after scalping, going to get a fertilizer app down in the next day or 2.
Anyway, here's a few pics 4 days after scalping, going to get a fertilizer app down in the next day or 2.
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
Awesome!
And it looks like you're right on the northern fringe where it's possible to grow it, especially in a good year.
Do you attribute this to improvement in the grass made recently through breeding? Or do you think it's always been able survive a mild to moderate Winter...even older cultivars?
And it looks like you're right on the northern fringe where it's possible to grow it, especially in a good year.
Do you attribute this to improvement in the grass made recently through breeding? Or do you think it's always been able survive a mild to moderate Winter...even older cultivars?
- Abyss
- Posts: 750
- Joined: April 1st, 2009, 3:31 am
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
That's a good question, people have ended up with random common Bermuda infestations on here for years.
Patriot has been specifically bred to tolerate colder temperatures, green up earlier, and survive light frosts without going dormant. I've been pretty impressed so far with it. I probably could have got it going a week earlier, but I've been out of town every weekend for the last 6 weeks with my daughter for soccer.
Patriot has been specifically bred to tolerate colder temperatures, green up earlier, and survive light frosts without going dormant. I've been pretty impressed so far with it. I probably could have got it going a week earlier, but I've been out of town every weekend for the last 6 weeks with my daughter for soccer.
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
There have been breeding advances, no doubt. Patriot is just one example of that. But, unimproved common types that have grown in place for a long time show their adaptation through selection. There are a couple patches of unimproved common-type bermudagrass on the Michigan State campus and I've found some along the southeastern shore of Lake Michigan. These are usually coarse-textured and are the last to green-up in the spring and first to go off color in the fall. I think some guys have said this already -- snow cover is a great insulator, so winters with a lot of snow (and few mid-winter melts) are easier on bermudagrass than even moderately cold winters without snow.
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- Posts: 6838
- Joined: September 14th, 2012, 10:53 pm
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
Wow. That's interesting. In Michigan no less.Billy wrote: ↑April 20th, 2017, 5:19 pmThere have been breeding advances, no doubt. Patriot is just one example of that. But, unimproved common types that have grown in place for a long time show their adaptation through selection. There are a couple patches of unimproved common-type bermudagrass on the Michigan State campus and I've found some along the southeastern shore of Lake Michigan. These are usually coarse-textured and are the last to green-up in the spring and first to go off color in the fall. I think some guys have said this already -- snow cover is a great insulator, so winters with a lot of snow (and few mid-winter melts) are easier on bermudagrass than even moderately cold winters without snow.
If I were more familiar with Bermuda, I'd probably eventually find some here somewhere. I can recognize St. Augustine (only seen it in Florida)...but I'm not as familiar with Bermuda at this time.
- Abyss
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
Green wrote: ↑April 20th, 2017, 9:30 pmIt usually looks like a weird fur ball almost in the middle of green grass. It's easier to find it in early spring and late fall. There's some in my parents lawn, next time I'm over I'll take a pic. It usually won't take over a lawn to bad, but it's a pain to get rid of.
Here's a pic update 1 week after scalping:
- kevreh
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
What company in delmar(va) did you get your seed from?
- HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
Bermuda in Philly. Love it!
- Abyss
- Posts: 750
- Joined: April 1st, 2009, 3:31 am
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
Right? Who would've thunk it?
Gotta get a picture up, it's thick, dark, and lush right now
- turf_toes
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
Moved to warm-season grass forum.
But since this was originally in the cool-season forum, it's probably worth mentioning that last winter was an exceptionally mild winter in the Philly area. I love experiments as much as anybody. But there's a reason people in the Delaware Valley don't commonly grow Bermuda.
If you are ok with having the entire lawn die over a more common Winter, this might be an option. But that seems a pretty big risk (much riskier than growing a KBG monostand).
Just to be clear, I'm not referring to average temperatures. The winters here can get down into the single digits for days or weeks at a time during a typical winter (we can sometimes go below zero overnight). That will normally kill any Bermudagrass lawn.
Given this area doesn't have season-long snow cover to insulate the grass, it's not likely to be a long-term success.
But since this was originally in the cool-season forum, it's probably worth mentioning that last winter was an exceptionally mild winter in the Philly area. I love experiments as much as anybody. But there's a reason people in the Delaware Valley don't commonly grow Bermuda.
If you are ok with having the entire lawn die over a more common Winter, this might be an option. But that seems a pretty big risk (much riskier than growing a KBG monostand).
Just to be clear, I'm not referring to average temperatures. The winters here can get down into the single digits for days or weeks at a time during a typical winter (we can sometimes go below zero overnight). That will normally kill any Bermudagrass lawn.
Given this area doesn't have season-long snow cover to insulate the grass, it's not likely to be a long-term success.
- Abyss
- Posts: 750
- Joined: April 1st, 2009, 3:31 am
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
The reason I had it in the cool season forum is to show that Bermuda can be a cool season grass as well.
My parents have had a form of common Bermuda in their lawn for the last 10-15 years, that has slowly become a bigger spot in their lawn. We've tried to kill it a few times and it just laughs every time (I could probably kill it now being more knowledgeable). There are other examples that others have posted. The 2 practice fields at the union stadium in Chester don't get covered and they've been there for 3 years. The 2 old practice fields that the union used to train on that get minimal input to them for the last 3 years are still thriving after 5 or 6 years now.
This isn't your average every day fancy warm season Bermuda. It's kind of like saying Kentucky blue grass can only be grown in Kentucky.
My parents have had a form of common Bermuda in their lawn for the last 10-15 years, that has slowly become a bigger spot in their lawn. We've tried to kill it a few times and it just laughs every time (I could probably kill it now being more knowledgeable). There are other examples that others have posted. The 2 practice fields at the union stadium in Chester don't get covered and they've been there for 3 years. The 2 old practice fields that the union used to train on that get minimal input to them for the last 3 years are still thriving after 5 or 6 years now.
This isn't your average every day fancy warm season Bermuda. It's kind of like saying Kentucky blue grass can only be grown in Kentucky.
- turf_toes
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Re: Patriot Bermuda made it through the winter
Understand your point. But it isn't a cool season grass anymore than Kentucky Bluegrass is a warm season grass. We have folks growing KBG in Georgia. But the posts go in cool season forum.
I realize many folks floating around are veterans of the defunct Scotts forum (which had northern and southern lawn forums). But the forums we have were decided nine years ago for that very reason. It's worked pretty well for nine years. I think we should stick to the plan.
If folks have interest in Bermuda, they ought to be looking in the warm season forum.
Just because one can do something doesn't mean typical lawn care forum users ought to be doing it.
It is interesting you didn't cite Lincoln Financial Field. They start the season with Bermuda. But switch mid-season to KBG. With all their financial resources, I wonder why the Eagles switch to KBG in November... surely it isn't from a lack of time, resources or knowledge.
Experiments are great. But I've told many KBG renovators in South Carolina and Georgia that it's a mistake to grow KBG in those areas. Fighting Mother Nature is generally a mistake and leads to trouble and heartache.
I think this falls in the same category. I certainly think this isn't something most people in the Delaware Valley should try.
I realize many folks floating around are veterans of the defunct Scotts forum (which had northern and southern lawn forums). But the forums we have were decided nine years ago for that very reason. It's worked pretty well for nine years. I think we should stick to the plan.
If folks have interest in Bermuda, they ought to be looking in the warm season forum.
Just because one can do something doesn't mean typical lawn care forum users ought to be doing it.
It is interesting you didn't cite Lincoln Financial Field. They start the season with Bermuda. But switch mid-season to KBG. With all their financial resources, I wonder why the Eagles switch to KBG in November... surely it isn't from a lack of time, resources or knowledge.
Experiments are great. But I've told many KBG renovators in South Carolina and Georgia that it's a mistake to grow KBG in those areas. Fighting Mother Nature is generally a mistake and leads to trouble and heartache.
I think this falls in the same category. I certainly think this isn't something most people in the Delaware Valley should try.
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